Transmission Cable Advice

[Islanddreamer]

Next week I am replacing my transmission cables - flybridge and lower helm - later next week. Boat is an Albin 36 double cabin / Lehman 120. Throttle cables are fine.

The routing of the old cables looked less than desirable, but they need to pass the port side of the engine. Does anyone have pics that they can share of their ER and how the cables are routed past the engine?

Thanks in advance!

mike

 

[kchace]

Unfortunately I don't have any decent pictures of what you're looking for but I'm going to replace mine in the next couple of weeks because they are worn enough to make them sloppy. I'd be happy to snap some pics of them then.

Ken

 

[meridian]

What's wrong with the cable? Sticky?


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum

 

[Islanddreamer]

Well - the cable was just a little sticky. My diagnosis was the lower helm had the issue.

When entering our marina, I line the boat up with the lane of slips - check the rudder position on the autohelm and set it dead ahead. There's a Vetus bow and stern, so once the rudder is dead ahead I can do all of my controlling with thrusters, forward / neutral / reverse. Works like a charm - especially since my slip only has 5" of clearance on either side. Even when its breezy, the boat is easy to dock. Last Sunday on my return. I did everything as normal - part of having a little OCD. One additional thing - when I am about 50' from entering the marina, I pull it out of gear and stop all forward progress with a little reverse prop. The approach is slow anyway, but I like to give myself additional time to make sure no one else is moving or any dinghy activity is present - and eliminate any wake. Being a good neighbor is important.

Anyway I was unable to pull it out of gear. The lower cable apparently stuck. No past history of this. My first attempt did nothing on the upper helm. Not moving fast at all, but boat is still moving. Second pull snapped and bent the connection at the control lever upstairs. I killed the power, but not before my forward progress and the wind put me into a steel piling at the floating pier. It did feel a little helpless, but no one was hurt. Very slow speed, but you would be surprised how quickly 50-70 feet can pass even at 500rpm..

Lower helm frozen. Upper helm snapped. I did eventually find the culprit after we stopped and pulled back on the lower helm reverse lever (after we were finally able to tie up onto a finger pier entering the marina).

Morse lever moves freely now with no cable attached.....

 

[Tuttouomo]

Mike,
I hope this helps you. I have the same setup on my 44 Defever ,from the lower helm, all the cables run along the overhead of the ER and then drop down to where they connect to trannys or injector pumps. This pic shows the stbd eng with the shift cable on port side of engine.

 

[Islanddreamer]

Thank you Tuttouomo. How heat resistant are transmission cables? Based on where mine ran, it may have contributed to the failure. Let me see how I can add a picture to my post.

 

[Islanddreamer]

Lets see if this works. I opened a Shutterfly account:

https://pix.sfly.com/HeQqDO

Pasting the link onto the picture thingie didn't work. This is before I started to tidy up the ER a little. My priorities when I purchased the boat were to verify engine, trans, everything below the waterline, zincs, electrical, plumbing were good to go. The Mrs. did the appearance of inside.

When you see where the cables both go past the port side of the engine, they run at length close to hot parts. In Sunday I ran hard for 5-6 hours making me think that it may have contributed to failure. I dunno.

Let me know if you can see the image I linked.

 

[psneeld]

Unless the cable sheathing is melted...doubt heat had much to do with it.
Mines runs down the length of the engine under the exhaust manifold.....touching the forward part...just not the uncooled part from the head to the manifold (usually rusty).

 

[Islanddreamer]

Psneeld - When I looked further, the PO made a quick repair to split sheathing. The underlying cable had corroded.

Is there value in some sort of heat barrier when running cable close to the manifold like that? First thought is aluminum?

 

[psneeld]

No need to unless against something hotter than 190 degrees (which is all about 99 percent of your Lehman should be).

Anything should help insulate...but really shouldn't be needed.

 

[Islanddreamer]

Thank you - I didn't want to make it more complicated than fishing the cables already will be. When I ordered cables, ordered an additional 2 feet per cable since I wasn't thrilled about the angles coming into the ER. A gradual curve has to be better than a tight one.

The cables I ordered were 26' for the FB and 19' for the lower helm. Measurement was very careful - measure twice and cut once. Added a little to original measurements to account for deck thickness.

Anyone here ever fished cables like this from the FB? Have done it inside of a house, but this is a different game. All advice is welcome!

 

[psneeld]

Shouldn't be much fishing if the 36 is similar to the 40 Albin.....pretty short and direct feed.

I have a panel that comes off that runs up/down the pilot house door frame that comes off. With that off the runs are easy unless the hole from the bridge is jam packed. But you are removing snd replacing 1 for 1.

 

[Islanddreamer]

Took that panel off. Pretty jam packed, but I'll get through it.

 

[jleonard]

Attach a small diameter (maybe 5/32") nylon line to the existing cable before you pull it out, and you'll have a way to fish the new cables thru the opening.

 

[Shoalwaters]

I have been involved in changing engine control cables on several boats and used the lessons learned when changing my own a couple of years ago. The link below goes to a brief how-to. Ignore the specifics about dismantling the levers unless you have the same type.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/renewing-engine-control-cables-8186.html

IMHO, the important stuff is:

i) Use the old cables to pull the new ones through.

ii) Take some time joining them together. I made a little threaded ferule which has paid dividends several time over. You may get lucky using sticky tape, but I have seen more failures than successes with this method. There is nothing more frustrating than having your hastily made joint come apart when the new cable is half way through!

iii) Remove the locking-nuts and rubber gaiters from the cable ends and wrap the joint in masking tape. This will make it more "streamlined" and, more important, prevent damage to the insualtion of other wires/cables as you pull the new one through.

iv) Lubricate the outside of the new cable with silicone grease or zipper-lube.

v) If possible, have one person push and one pull as the cable is fed in.

Good luck and let us know how you got through.

 

[Islanddreamer]

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/renewing-engine-control-cables-8186.html[/URL]

IMHO, the important stuff is:

i) Use the old cables to pull the new ones through.

ii) Take some time joining them together. I made a little threaded ferule which has paid dividends several time over. You may get lucky using sticky tape, but I have seen more failures than successes with this method. There is nothing more frustrating than having your hastily made joint come apart when the new cable is half way through!

iii) Remove the locking-nuts and rubber gaiters from the cable ends and wrap the joint in masking tape. This will make it more "streamlined" and, more important, prevent damage to the insualtion of other wires/cables as you pull the new one through.

iv) Lubricate the outside of the new cable with silicone grease or zipper-lube.

v) If possible, have one person push and one pull as the cable is fed in.

Good luck and let us know how you got through.

Thank you Mike! I'd been wondering about threading something to both ends to make a mechanically sound connection. In the past I've pulled electrical cable at home with mixed results. Didn't think if an external lube.

Cables come on Tuesday and with any luck I can get moving on this Thursday afternoon. Thanks for the link to your prior post - it will be a great help. Is that a 10-32 thread inside the ferrule?

mike

 

[Shoalwaters]

. . . Is that a 10-32 thread inside the ferrule?

Mike, yes it is a 10-32 thread. You might be able to get one ready-made from Home Depot or similar. They sell "threaded-rod joiners" - needs no explanation. They are hexagonal in cross section and too fat for your purpose. Anything from a small lathe to a file or Dremel will get the weight off though.

 

[FF]

Shift cables come in many grades , the style used on outboards is not the best for a larger boat.

The 33 series is for outboards

the 43 series is far stronger, tho less willing tom take a very tight bend.

Boat assemblers frequently use the least expensive , no reason for an owner that prefers reliability to do the same.

 

[Islanddreamer]

Shoalwaters / Mike -Pulled the FB cable last evening. I'll post pictures as to why I couldn't pull from top down, so it came from bottom up. The rod coupling nut worked perfectly. Since you can't see how far in you need to thread it, I screwed the nut fully onto the new shaft, ran the little screw (I am guessing a lock screw) up to the end and backed it coupling nut off about 1/2 the length of the nut then screwed it onto the old shaft.

These rod coupling nuts are not a big box item - I tried - however Mrs. located the item at W.W. Grainger. It is a "Rod Coupling Nut" Item 1JA51 and they come in a bag of 10 for $5.69. It took a day to come in, but they work perfectly. One more issue was pulling the old cable through the deck opening. The rubber boot on the existing cable had expanded over time and was too big to pass, so I clipped it off. The new rubber boot passes through the hole just fine.

Mounting the cable to the shift lever under the FB makes me wish I was younger and thinner. Fortunately my wife was close-by in case we had a "Winnie the Pooh and the Honey Tree" event...

Thank you Mike!!!

 

[Shoalwaters]

Mike, glad it worked and I hear you about size and flexibility as the years creep up on us!

Fred: I stand by my response when you previously advocated heavier cables for trawler use:

"I stand by my choice of CC3300 Midrange cables which have a heavy jacket and Lubri-core wire. The cables on a trawler spend their lives in a clean dry environment with little or no flexing. Cables on outboards are regularly doused with sea-water and constantly flexed back and forth as the motors turn. I would have thought that application called for the higher spec more expensive cables."

 

[Islanddreamer]

Not beating this to death, but I was looking over YW to see how others had routed the transmission cables along the port side of the engine and I noticed a strange but consistent theme. All of the boats - specifically trawlers - had a dual helm setup and many of them had one set of throttle and transmission cables. I specifically looked for single Lehman setups.

Are people unhooking a helm? Is there something I am missing here? Is there a transmission magic trick that I missed out on?

 

[rochepoint]

Not beating this to death, but I was looking over YW to see how others had routed the transmission cables along the port side of the engine and I noticed a strange but consistent theme. All of the boats - specifically trawlers - had a dual helm setup and many of them had one set of throttle and transmission cables. I specifically looked for single Lehman setups.

Are people unhooking a helm? Is there something I am missing here? Is there a transmission magic trick that I missed out on?

There are two types of control setups, parallel and series. Our boat uses the series method to our single Perkins were the cable from the up control goes to the lower control and then a second control cable goes to the engine/tramsmission. The attached screenshot from Teleflex may explain it better.

 

[kchace]

There are two types of control setups, parallel and series. Our boat uses the series method to our single Perkins were the cable from the up control goes to the lower control and then a second control cable goes to the engine/tramsmission. The attached screenshot from Teleflex may explain it better.

My dual Lehman 135's are also set up with controls in series. Only one throttle and transmission cable to each side.

Ken

 

[jleonard]

My Albin is in series.