Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-02-2012, 12:05 PM   #61
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
We pressure wash, sand and break/grind the blisters as we come across them. Most of the blisters are small dime size and a few quarter which are surface blisters. Pettit Trinidad is epoxy based so it dries hard to form a protective barrier. However, if left to thick the bottom paint will blister. That is why we lightly sand the hull. Same idea as sand between coats when varnishing/painting so the paint sticks.

.....clearly the mad raving of an "internet heckler".
__________________
Advertisement

Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:27 PM   #62
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Besslb View Post
We would powerwash, acid wash and do a decent job sanding and feathering in of flaking paint, getting a smooth-ish surface to paint on. Then three coats.

So, looking at this from a different angle....is there any reason to "not" sandblast all of that old - thick - layers and layers of paint off, get 2 coats of barrier epoxy and start with new paint? Having the biggest blisters ground out while they're visible.



I was working on a bottom job once and a steel boat was next to me being sand blasted. I wondered about sand blasting my bottom and asked the guy to hit it with his sand blaster. Sorry I did that. He only did about a few square inches. It not only took the bottom paint of but to the gell coat and beyond. Soda blasting could be an option or crushed walnut shells or some other soft abrasive could work. Just don't use sand.

SD
__________________

__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 06:47 PM   #63
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidgear View Post
.....clearly the mad raving of an "internet heckler".
Cute...my point is knowing the whole problem...people who put band aides on their bald heads sometimes die of melanoma...

You response is typical of just those I was referring to....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:27 PM   #64
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Cute...my point is knowing the whole problem...people who put band aides on their bald heads sometimes die of melanoma...

You response is typical of just those I was referring to....
Rest assured that most folks understood your point a long time ago.
Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 05:59 PM   #65
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
do it right or leave it alone! half azzed patch jobs lead to greater problems later.

Just have her hauled and get to work. Cheapest and best way cause then u know eactly what was done. Hopefully your bottom has never been "repaired" by a know it all before and u can proceed. Get her down to the gel coat and start grinding out the blisters till there all opened. dry the hull with tarps and lamps. when you think its dry dry it some more then fill in the holes with a product compatable with the type of glass your boat was made of. Sand her down smooth then coat with at least four layers of a barrier coat exactly as specified by the manufacturer. Bottom paint and forget blisters forever. Ive used interlux before and that stuff is like iron but very hard to apply in a smooth coat because of its low solvent content.
I'm not a professional just had blister concerns a couplke of times over the years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Besslb View Post
Hi TF People!

Everyone in Sandy's path stay safe. (not the question)

What are your thoughts on blisters? We know we have some. It's one of the reasons we haul and paint yearly. When we surveyed originally the bottom was very bumpy and the surveryor said that it would need doing eventually. PO hadn't painted the bottom in the 4 years he owned the boat. Since our yearly paint jobs, the bottom has improved quite a bit.

We're hauled at a new yard, and of course the yard manager wants to talk about our bottom. We're going tomorrow to see her and see if it really looks any worse than it has in the past couple of years. (Tom was in a little bit of a hurry when he delivered her there, and didn't make a point of taking notice other than the previous paint didn't look so bad)

The full peel is out of the question financially. But what about sandblasting back to gelcoat and an epoxy barrier coat? What are your thoughts on that job. Is it worth it? Does it fix the problems or is it just a stop gap on the road to the a peel?

Thanks ya'll!!
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 07:01 PM   #66
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
do it right or leave it alone! half azzed patch jobs lead to greater problems later.

Just have her hauled and get to work. Cheapest and best way cause then u know eactly what was done. Hopefully your bottom has never been "repaired" by a know it all before and u can proceed. Get her down to the gel coat and start grinding out the blisters till there all opened. dry the hull with tarps and lamps. when you think its dry dry it some more then fill in the holes with a product compatable with the type of glass your boat was made of. Sand her down smooth then coat with at least four layers of a barrier coat exactly as specified by the manufacturer. Bottom paint and forget blisters forever. Ive used interlux before and that stuff is like iron but very hard to apply in a smooth coat because of its low solvent content.
I'm not a professional just had blister concerns a couplke of times over the years
only taking it down to gel may be a "half azz job" in itself without further investigation...
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 09:56 PM   #67
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
only taking it down to gel may be a "half azz job" in itself without further investigation...
yes, to be done before the first blister is popped
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:55 AM   #68
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,981
I owned a 73 Uniflite... just before Uni's blister problems really became a BIG deal throughout the brand. Owning a 1977 Tollycraft there is not a blister in sight and no other Tolly owners I know have any either. Good luck with blister repairs. Yea Tolly Boats!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 11:43 PM   #69
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
Art

Not too fast now. Some years ago I made an offer on a 1988 Tolly 44. During survey over 100 blisters were found between a dime and quarter in size. Running from that vessel I had a 1992 Tolly 48 go through survey. There were about 20 good sized blisters around the struts. Walked from that one too not only due to blisters but FRP issues in the side decks. I love Tollycraft but they are not free of FRP issues..
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 12:14 AM   #70
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Art

Not too fast now. Some years ago I made an offer on a 1988 Tolly 44. During survey over 100 blisters were found between a dime and quarter in size. Running from that vessel I had a 1992 Tolly 48 go through survey. There were about 20 good sized blisters around the struts. Walked from that one too not only due to blisters but FRP issues in the side decks. I love Tollycraft but they are not free of FRP issues..
That may well be true for late 80ís and 90ís Tollycraft... reminds me of Uniflite boats; in that mine having been a 1973 model was the last year before Uni began to experience blisters from mid 1974 onward for many years due to resin mix alterations. So... our 1977 Tolly and other Tollys I know with no blisters are all in early 70ís to early 80ís. Might be that during later years Tollycraft build-outs also utilized FG materials that would eventually blister. But, our 77 Tolly and the other Tolly owners I chat with who own older Tollycrafts experience no accountable blisters that I know of.
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 09:12 AM   #71
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
Before 73 , when the Arabs and Jews had a tussle and the price of resin went from 13c a pound to almost a buck, a blister GRP was the result of a dirty shop ,or very poor workmanship.

Most resind became crappy and blister prone immediatly.

Due to the industry and USCG requirements FR (fire retardant) resin took a few more years to become crap.

So Uniflites and other boats built for inspected vessel service , or Unkle Sam were OK till 76 or 77.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 02:00 PM   #72
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
so only old boats are good? i thought the problem had been pinned down to the use of to high a solvent content? solvent was added to make it easier to apply and a smoother finish. the modern epa standards for low voc plastics should result in very few blisters as long as the applicator dosent add solvent.
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 02:11 PM   #73
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
the modern epa standards for low voc plastics
The overwhelming majority of these boats are being built far away from the influence of the EPA.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:01 PM   #74
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
The overwhelming majority of these boats are being built far away from the influence of the EPA.
and thats why half azzed repair specialists this with solvents. the finished products looks better but wont last
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:33 AM   #75
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
solvent was added to make it easier to apply and a smoother finish.

Resin is sold commercially by the pound , and retail by the gallon.

The solvent was added to take up space , instead of expensive resin.

Boats that were hand laid up by a small crew seldom had hull problems,

The use of a chopper gun to cover the fresh gel coat , to stop fabric bleed thru , is the cause of most surface blister problems , the thinner was trapped befoe it could evaporate.

Better shops used 3/4 oz CSM instead of chop, and had no problems.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:56 AM   #76
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
so only old boats are good? i thought the problem had been pinned down to the use of to high a solvent content? solvent was added to make it easier to apply and a smoother finish. the modern epa standards for low voc plastics should result in very few blisters as long as the applicator dosent add solvent.
There's way more to the hydrolysis and blistering story than just bad resins and poor application...lot's of great reading out there outside the marine industry...

Search for GRP tank and piping issues...that industry has done some interesting research into the hydrolysis of GRP and what conditions accelerate it.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 07:07 PM   #77
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
UPDATE - We visited Skinny Dippin' today to check on progress and deliver tools for refinishing the salon floors next weekend.

The media blasting has been finished ($1500) to remove all the years of old paint and open up the blisters. At first, it looked pretty bad, but most, if not all, of them are cosmetic. We knew that going in. None seem to be weeping and the hull looks pretty good. We are going to let it sit for another three weeks before applying three coats of Sea Hawk barrier coat and two coats of hard bottom paint.

We discovered a few previous repairs and they still look solid. The yard owners is also pleased with the results and says that the results we see are typical and we are still on time and on budget.

Here are the new pics:


P1020035 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020033 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020032 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020031 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020028 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020034 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020036 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020044 by GonzoF1, on Flickr


P1020043 by GonzoF1, on Flickr
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #78
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Gee...looks like my bottom did...brave enough to put a chisel to some of those deeper spots?????

I wound up pulling 3 layers laminates deep...if you are willing to dig further....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 07:25 PM   #79
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,573
The lack of weeping is encouraging.You look like getting off lightly with a good result.
Mine wept,some until well ground back. I wept too when I got the bill.
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 08:12 PM   #80
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Some severe damage doesn't even involve weeping...the laminates may be dry already but already hydrolyzed and separated.
__________________

psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012