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Old 05-31-2012, 02:22 PM   #1
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Some Issues that came up

I bought my Trawler this month and this weekend I cruised it to my homeport.

Some issues that I observed are listed below. I would love to hear recommendations on solutions.

Some info: I cruised from St Marks to Pensacola making two marina stops and a sustained speed of 9 kts at 2400RPM I have twin Perks 135hp. I burned through 300 gallons of fuel.

1. Temps on both engines were fairly consitent at 185 STBD and 190-200 Port.

2. Changed Fuel Filters at both stops. 2 Micron Racor at first then 10 Micron as tanks burned down. Overall Color of fuel was good.

3. Replaced STBD Impeller. Old Impeller was missing rubber fants/splines and was OLD. Stbd Cooling was noticable and wet exhaust was excellent.

4. COULD NOT replace Port Impeller due to three of the six brass screws on Water Impeller Cover have stripped screw heads! ARRH! So I need to see if I can even get a bite still on the heads. One solution recommended to me was to use a product called "Freeze out" to contract the brass screw and try to unscrew using remaining bite. Other wise I will need to figure a way to dremel a groove in the head to get a better bite on it... Wish it was properly maintained!!

I am sure this was the reason for the differances in Temp on engines also wet exhaust is obviously less.

5. Fly Bridge Steering developed a slow weep of hydraulic steering fluid after first day. Steering was responsive and I took the black plastic cover off on the outside of the wheel shaft and saw weeping from the o-ring. Suspect the O ring is bad. I am not certain how to change this out and then how to or where to add replacement ATF fluid.

6. Stbd Engine had a MAJOR oil leak that caused pressure alarm that auto shut engine on first day. Oil leak came from manual piston pump valve (for oil changes) it leaked from the outflow spout. I cleaned the oil, plugged the spout with an absorbant towel stuffed into the opening and filled the crankcase back up. No issues on that for duration but do not know how to prevent without the rag stuffed in the tube.

7. Coolant was gone after 2nd day. Had to add a gallon of water and a gallon of 50/50 Anti to both engines.. Suspect this is the first time in years this boat was run like this. ALso think the impeller issue is part of the problem on the Port engine.

8. HEADS.. CRAP!!! Aft Head will not drain.. both are PAR Jabsco Electrics on Fesh water. Get good pump contact on aft toilet but it wont drain. Fwd head Pump trips breaker when engaged and wont flush. Did a pump out the 2nd day but got no relief of the toilets. They remain clogged or unable to drain...

9. Minor Leakage on windows. Intend to remove old sealant and reseal with Sikaflex 295

10. Fuel Tanks.. Both Engine want to run off the Port Fuel Tank. I released the ball valves on the bottom of each tank and the Stbd tank fed from the gravity but both engines are still pulling from the prt tank. Not sure where the cross feed is for the pull to secure so the engines can run off each tank independently. THis one is confusing.


I would appreciate any info and recommendations any of you may have! Thanks! Looking forward to lots of knowledge from you salty dogs.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:42 PM   #2
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The disappearing coolant is a major concern. Where is it going? Into the oil? Leaking into the drip pan? Being blown out the exhaust from a leak in the heat exchanger?

I think you'll need to do more than just remove and replace the sealant in the windows. Don't know what your window construction is like, but generally you need to remove the whole window to fix a leak. Depending on the construction the leak could be down through the track if it's a sliding window, around fixed glass that the glazing has given up on, through the frame-to-cabin seal if the bedding has dried out or worn out, etc. So it's generally better to remove the window entirely, clean up the mating surfaces, apply new bedding and re-install.

Sikaflex is a good choice if some adhesive properties are needed. Our window frames are held in place with lots of screws so we don't need any adhesive properties in the bedding. So we use Dolfinite to bed the window frames. No adhesive qualities at all so if frame removal becomes necessary later--- broken pane or whatever--- removing the frame is easy. We bed the fixed glass and track in Sikaflex.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:56 PM   #3
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Marin,
Thanks for the reply. Regarding the Coolant, I didnt see any leakage in the drip pans or in the oil that was found to be leaked. The motors have a good oil analysis conducted at the time of survey. Survey was this month as well as the oil analysis. I am not certain the coolant level was was adequate when we left. When the motors are cold should I visibly be able to feel the coolant level after removing the caps or does the system pressurize somewhat?

Regarding the window leaks, they are slight and noticable during the rain squalls we encountered. I am looking for a temp fix until i can do it correctly, so what would you recommend for that?
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:07 PM   #4
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Check out this for the impellar cover.

www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html

I had the same issue with the brass screws on my cover. they were stripped and a mother to get to and off.


I bought one and I think it is the best thing since sliced bread.

a british company so you have to order it.

SD
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:08 PM   #5
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Hey Blue Heron! Most of that is way over my head but I can speak to the coolant issue (perhaps?). We had mysterious disappearing coolant and installed the coolant overflow tank doohickeys (you can see how techie I am) available at any auto supply shop. We no longer lose any coolant.
Here's the technical jargon about it that I found online http://www.carpartswholesale.com/cpw...flow_tank.html

"When heated the coolant expands; thus, most cooling systems have expansion tank that provides storage space for the heated coolant. The expansion tank is usually plastic and is connected to the radiator through the overflow tube. It is also called as the radiator overflow tank, coolant-recovery tank, coolant reservoir, or simply overflow tank or canister. These names imply its function, which is to hold the overflowing coolant that absorbed the heat from the engine.

Not all vehicles have a radiator overflow tank; however, this part is helpful in the cooling system. Without it, the expanded or heated coolant would flow out of the overflow tube and eventually, out of the vehicle and out on the street. The expansion tank or radiator overflow tank provides additional space for the coolant to stay after it absorbed the heat from the engine. Also, the radiator overflow tank removes air bubbles from the coolant, thus, allowing it to absorb heat much faster. Furthermore, when a vehicle has an overflow tank, the radiator is always full.

Only enough amount of the heated coolant goes to the radiator for cooling and this goes back to the engine to absorb heat once again. When the engine cools, vacuum is created in the cooling system since it is a closed system. This causes the coolant in the radiator overflow tank to be sucked back into the cooling system."
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:18 PM   #6
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#8 On the back of the macerator pump is a slotted screw. It is part of the shaft for the pump. If she won't run turn that little screw. It could be bound up.

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Old 05-31-2012, 03:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Regarding the window leaks, they are slight and noticable during the rain squalls we encountered. I am looking for a temp fix until i can do it correctly, so what would you recommend for that?
It all depends on the window construction. GBs of our vintage use built-up windows. The window surround or sill is part of the fiberglass cabin structure. The fixed glass is bedded to an inner wood frame, the track is bedded and screwed to the fiberglass sill, and the wood frame is bedded and screwed to the outside of the cabin. It's actually a very good way to make a window because they are easy to rebuild, but it's pretty hard to effect a temporary repair on a leak because you may not be able to get sealant to the place the leak is occurring.

If you have one-piece aluminum windows or whatever it may be easier to determine where the water is getting in and effect a temporary fix by smearing new sealant around the area. Whatever you do don't use silicone for this--- you will regret it as long as you own the boat and the next owner will hunt you down and kill you.

Quote:
When the motors are cold should I visibly be able to feel the coolant level after removing the caps or does the system pressurize somewhat?
The only marine diesel I am well familiar with is the Ford Lehman 120. So I can't offer any suggestions regarding your Perkins. On the FL120 filling the header or expansion tank mounted on the front of the engine to the bottom of the filler neck results in coolant being blown out the overflow pipe when the engine is up to temp and the coolant expands in volume and the pressure builds. After the engine cools down, the coolant level appears to be about an inch or so below the bottom of the filler neck.

There is a great retrofit kit to convert the FL120s cooling system to an automotive-style recovery system. I would imagine there is something similar for Perkins engines that weren't built with a recovery system as stock.

On the FL120 you have to change the header tank's filler neck insert and use a different cap (both come in the kit) because the stock filler neck and cap don't allow coolant to be pulled back into the tank as the engine cools. A hose connects the overflow tube of the new neck insert to a plastic overflow bottle you mount somewhere near the engine. So as the engine heats up excess coolant is pushed out of the header tank into the overflow bottle. As the engine cools and the volume of coolant in the engine and header tank shrinks, the resulting vacuum pulls the coolant from the overflow bottle back into the header tank. Just like a car. The header tank is the equivalent of the upper chamber of your car's radiator.

We bought a pair of kits not long after buying the boat but I've been too lazy to install them. So we use a poor man's recovery system--- I ran a hose from each engine's header tank overflow pipe down to an empty, cleaned out quart oil bottle that sits in the sump pan. While I don't do this on every startup I periodically pour the coolant that has been pushed out of the expansion tank back into the tank to fill it back up. Of course the next time we use the engine the coolant gets pushed back into the bottle again but so far this system has proven to be less effort than installing the proper kit.

The danger of letting the coolant get too low in the expansion tank of an FL120 is that if it gets low enough an air pocket can form in the upper cooling passage in the water-cooled exhaust manifold that is part of the Lehman marinization package for the Ford of England Dorset diesel. This pocket will allow tremendous heat buildup in this one spot and severe damage to the manifold can result. These manifolds have not been made in years so replacing one can be a major hassle. So I make it a practice before every cold engine start to crack the bleed screw on top of the manifold to make sure there is no air trapped up there. (It should never be opened when the engine is hot.)

I have no idea if your Perkins engines are configured in a similar manner, but if they are a too-low coolant level in the expansion tank is a Bad Thing.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:28 PM   #8
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Pineapple, I was wondering the same thing. I have a coolant reservoir on my gen set but not each motor. Good info thanks

skipper, will check out. Appreciate that.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:47 PM   #9
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Pineapple, I was wondering the same thing. I have a coolant reservoir on my gen set but not each motor. Good info thanks

skipper, will check out. Appreciate that.
Yes exactly, our gen set had one but our Perkins did not. We were adding coolant every trip until we added the overflows. The hardest part was figuring out where to put them!!
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:21 PM   #10
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Regarding coolant temperature on a Perkins....time for NEW raw water pumps at that age. I predict you will see a 10 degree F reduction in temp with new pumps. The housing and cam wear, and won't pump the same volume a new one will pump. Find the impeller blades. They have settled someplace and will restrict flow. Take system aart piece by piece until you find them all.
Regarding losing coolant...do you have "recovery bottles"? If not buy some generic ones and add them. Coolant expands when hot and recovery bottles will let that happen and keep the system full. I had a Perkins without one and had to leave the system down, never hurt, but in retrospect a recovery bottle would have changed things.
Regarding the oil change pump...you should be able to get a replacement o ring and that should solve the leak. Buna is oil resistant. Find a match up at an auto parts store or an industrial supply house.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:02 PM   #11
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To find where to add the hydraulic fluid for steering, I suggest lifting the mattress off the bed in the aft cabin, and seeing if the reservoir is in one of the accesses. That is where ours is....

Resealing windows....use Sika 295 "UV"....it won't discolor from the sun.

Toilets not flushing/draining....ugghh....I can relate. Follow the black water hose...wherever it goes....two things immediately come to mind:

1. If the boat sat for very long with sewage in the hoses, it has probably hardened and is blocking the hose. If there is a Y valve in the system, see if you can change flow direction by moving the handle. If it won't move... its either time to manually clean or replace.

"Best remedy": Rip it all out and replace it.

2. If the boat has anti-siphon/vented loops the problem could also be blockage there....again, clean or replace.

I encountered the same situation on our boat......and I even ran muriatic acid through the systems.....helped a little and temporarily.....ended up doing a lot of removal, cleaning and replacing of hoses.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:06 PM   #12
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Blue Heron,

For number 4, Loctite makes a product called Freeze and Release that will do just what you want.

Full disclosure my wife works for the company.

Rob
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:19 AM   #13
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Without getting into the specifics,did you get a pre purchase Survey?
You may or may not have done some "shakedown" cruising before the trip home, but it could be your experiences indicate the need for caution on a long "bringing her home" transit with an untested boat.
A friend bought a 40ft sailboat/yacht which very nearly sank on the home delivery voyage due to numerous missed survey issues and required Marine Rescue(Coastguard) intervention to prevent a disaster.
I inspected a boat kept about 600miles away but bought another located nearby; one reason was the concern of setting out on a voyage in a boat which despite survey and personal inspections is an unknown quantity until put to the test.
That said, none of your issues sound insurmountable and I hope you have many years of joy with your new boat. It`s just something to think about. BruceK
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:56 AM   #14
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4. COULD NOT replace Port Impeller due to three of the six brass screws on Water Impeller Cover have stripped screw heads! ARRH!

When you get them out SS Allen head machibe scrtews are far easier to remove when they cant be seen , just felt.

The Allen heads also are more positive than slotted or phillips head screws.

FW implellers require frequent replacement inshore from the sand and mud.

After enough rubber replacements , the housing will be worn , time to renew.

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Old 06-01-2012, 09:48 AM   #15
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Wow, thanks all!
@jleonard - Yes, Agree. I am going to take apart the hoses leading to the heat exchanger and hope they are in the screem filter. (should be one at the impeller intake side correct?) I will look for the Buna. Thanks! No I dont have the reservoirs but can see that is going to be money well spent if I can find a place to mount them.

@JAT - Nice Boat. Same one? I have looked in the Lazzerette and see there are fitting on two cylinders. Could be it. HEad guy coming today.. will know more this afternoon. Leaning towards a complete rip out...

@Datenight- is this going to "freeze" the screw to allow it to be contracted and move? I will try it.

@Bruce - yes I had a survey and a sea trial. Boat pretty much sat for the last year while it was in Brokers Purgatory. The heads are the only real dissappointment. They were checked as Satisfactory on survey and DID flush. They were not stressed on a 3 day return trip however. The Windows showed to be small leaks and advised to rebed. I actually gained a lot of confidence in the boat after the trip and learned a ton. The Motors performed well after figuring out they needed a watchful eye. I knew I was going to have some work. These issues are just some of the immediate ones I need to address and I am eager to hear from others on the similiar boats how they repaired them.

@FF Great idea.. I agree. Will fix that to prevent again Thanks
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:49 AM   #16
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Marin, I found the coolant, it absorbed into the pads in my drip pans
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:07 PM   #17
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FWIW, My smaller perkins (4-236, 85hp) don't have a coolant recovery system. I keep the fluid about 1/2 inch below the rim, none ever leaks out. My engines run at about 115 to 120 degrees.

You bought your boat in Saint Marks? That is a few miles from here, not too many cruising boats come through this area.

That is a little harder than I push my engines, I cruise at 1850, but your boat and engines may be different. Could cause some higher heating and coolant overflow though.

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Old 06-01-2012, 07:00 PM   #18
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FWIW, My smaller perkins (4-236, 85hp) don't have a coolant recovery system. I keep the fluid about 1/2 inch below the rim, none ever leaks out. My engines run at about 115 to 120 degrees.

You bought your boat in Saint Marks? That is a few miles from here, not too many cruising boats come through this area.

That is a little harder than I push my engines, I cruise at 1850, but your boat and engines may be different. Could cause some higher heating and coolant overflow though.

Doug
interesting. we have turboed Perkins 6.354 engines that we typically cruise at 1800 RPMS which puts them at 160-170 degrees. our coolant overflow system gets a workout every trip.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:06 PM   #19
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Blue,

It will make the screw contract and also contains a penetrating oil. I like FF's idea as well.

Rob
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:42 PM   #20
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Blue Heron, I just went through the same issue with the sanitation hose on my Hershine 37. I thought about the acid treatment and even considered try using a snake. In the end, after seeing the Y- valve was seized and the hose inside diameter was very reduced, I bought new hose from a member on this forum and tore out the old and put in the new, 19ft. of it from aft cabin to the holding tank. I am glad the job is over but very glad I replaced instead of trying to clean.
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