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Old 04-19-2012, 10:08 AM   #41
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My surveyor put a value on my boat. So did a different surveyor for a friend's boat.

As I said above, the real monetary value is what a buyer is willing to pay for your boat, not what a surveyor or broker says it is worth. My broker told me my previous boat was worth $30K and listed it for that. Over a year later, it sold for $11.5K. That's what it was worth.

BTW: My insurance company never asked for a survey.
The thread was started about ..."I just got off the phone with an insurance adjuster with Boat US. "

So it IS important to know the 3 values of your boat...what it could sell for, what you can insure it for and what it is worth to you.

Often when the "what it would sell for" starts to greatly increase over "what it's worth to you"....well we all know what happens then!!!
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:33 AM   #42
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The irony in all this is just a few months ago when Scout was gutted and scattered between two shops and the boat house I would have had to pay someone to haul her away. If only the insurance company could have seen her then.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:23 AM   #43
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This reminds me of when I bought my current boat.
I was loking a certain models in my size and price range. I came across a really well maintained sailboat. It was about 30 years old at the time. The owner was an old guy, about 75 at the time and wanted to seel his boat and move up to Minnisota (or someplace like that) to be with friends and family. Anyway, the boat was in like new condition. All of the book values and the value I got from the broker put that age boat in the range of 35 to $45,000. he wanted $58K and the broker told me he wasn't going to budge an inch. Anyway, I made a written offer of $46K with $15K down so he would know I was serious. In the offer, i made a note quoting the various sources of valuation and my offer was a little higher than the top value.
As expected, he was insulted by my offer.
Bottom line.......he is now 80 years old and still owns the boat. Never did move and the boat is for still sale, but this time "For sale by owner".

As much as people think they would pay a lot more for a boat because of condition, when confronted with a situation like living in hurricane territory, and insuring your boat for much less than you paid, makes you think a little harder. BTW, he didnt have central heat and air, just a window unit.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:56 PM   #44
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Wrapped up some more of the routine maintenance this week.

The autopilot install is complete as is the rudder rebuild/reassembly. I bought the Simrad AP22 as a working take-out from a reputable dealer. The RPU 160 pump is new. No problems plumbing it up to the existing Wagner 700 series hydraulic steering system. I did have to run a copper tube from the autopilot pump back to the helm station for a common resevoir. Bleeding the system out was not fun but done. Works great! Responds perfectly to flux-gate compass and rudder indicator. Going to get the boat in the water and run it for awhile before coupling to the 740S Garmin.
The new MS-3000 Xantrex pure sine wave inverter is in, wired and working as it should. I've had it new in the box for a few years. I know friends don't let friends buy Xantrex but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on it at the time.
Both systems are new to Scout.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #45
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Looks good, Chip. Can't imagine my Coot without "crewmember" Otto. He allows me to be a better lookout.

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Old 05-08-2012, 10:33 PM   #46
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I'm impressed with your work and pictures. What are the pros and cons of having your AP controlled by the chart plotter vs maintaining a heading? I assume you'll be set up to do either?
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:41 AM   #47
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Anode

I'm impressed with your work and pictures. What are the pros and cons of having your AP controlled by the chart plotter vs maintaining a heading? I assume you'll be set up to do either?
go to waypoint keeps you on track while hold heading doesn't correct for set and drift
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:14 AM   #48
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Greetings,
FF has mentioned numerous time that "paint sells da boat" and I agree but I'm thinking of painting "da boat". Not for resale but because I'm tired of looking at crazed, chipped, oxidized and faded coatings and they're getting me down. Now the conundrum of the original question...Routine maintenance or added value.
I know in the housing market that certain "upgrades" (refurbished kitchens and bathrooms) add to resale value and other items do not (pool for example). So do I do nothing and live with the status quo or re-paint? Hmmmmm...
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:37 AM   #49
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Greetings,
FF has mentioned numerous time that "paint sells da boat" and I agree but I'm thinking of painting "da boat". Not for resale but because I'm tired of looking at crazed, chipped, oxidized and faded coatings and they're getting me down. Now the conundrum of the original question...Routine maintenance or added value.
I know in the housing market that certain "upgrades" (refurbished kitchens and bathrooms) add to resale value and other items do not (pool for example). So do I do nothing and live with the status quo or re-paint? Hmmmmm...
Just my opinion as I think when selling/buying houses people are COMPLETE idiots!!! (I just short sold 4 of them)

Paint will help the boat sell more quickly if it LOOKS GOOD!!!! That's gonna be in the eye of the beholder obviously..

I think a amatuer paint job will help the boat sell...but you won't see much money out of it.

A pro job with reciepts....may get a few more dollars at sale.

All that said...I think that you have to see where your boat falls into the big scheme of things. A newer boat always benifits from nicely done repairs/upgrades.

An older boat (meaning it's all some of us can afford) and getting into it means keeping the purchase dollars down while we expect to pay the ongoing rebuild/upgrade dollars after we get into her. So a lot of presale fixes/upgrades are nice but the bottom line is still the bottom line.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:51 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
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I'm impressed with your work and pictures. What are the pros and cons of having your AP controlled by the chart plotter vs maintaining a heading? I assume you'll be set up to do either?
Thanks sunchaser. psneed answered part of your question.
Pros and cons? If you let the plotter and waypoint control the autopilot you don't have to monitor and manually set the heading to correct set and drift as psneed said. The downside is you can get too complacent about your position and surroundings and you run into things. You've heard the story about the guys who set their waypoints on top of the marker and then run into it.
Most of the boats (old) that I get on don't have the AP couple to the chart plotter and I'm used to monitoring and adjusting. Offshore at 6-8 knots you typically only have to do this every few hours. In congested areas like the ICW I never set waypoints but like the AP on a heading. That way I can sit back with a cup of coffee and observe what's going on around me.
Yes I plan to couple my AP to the plotter but, because it's a new install, I want to make sure it functions properly on it's own before doing it. This way it's easier to trouble shoot as it eliminates one variable.
I love autopilots. I wouldn't own a boat without one. It was one of the first things I purchased (and the last to be installed) for Scout when we started the refit. Value added? It's worth a lot to me.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:56 AM   #51
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I hardly ever run our AP in "follow the course" mode. Dodging buoys, logs, crab pots, other traffic and inclimate weather in the PNW requires a careful watch. I just don't think the helmsman is as vigilant with a course setting vs manually adjusting the AP wheel to stay on course.

Last year a very nice vessel we know struck a marked underwater rock - the boat was on AP course setting, nobody was following the plotter or charts and the owner had not noted the line went over an isolated rock as he laid out his course. I've heard all to often of striking things while in AP course mode, best to use all ability to avoid sinking or fouling a prop.

I wonder it the Aegean was mistakingly on an AP course for Coronado Is? I'd read it was under power at the time due to light winds. For sure the helmsman was "asleep."
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:37 AM   #52
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When I go on watch in an unfamiliar place I will zoom in on the plotter for as much detail as possible and 'walk through' my intended course for the watch. That way I can pick up on potential hazards before the boat finds them. A good habit to get into.
While the AP steers the boat I can concentrate on visual lookout, radar targets and direction of travel, paper charts, etc. There's more to operating a boat than just steering and the AP can steer a lot better than I can.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:35 AM   #53
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When our AP is in heading mode we frequently make course corrections to avoid moving or still targets that may be as much as 2 miles in front of us. When nothing in front (a rarity) we make a course correction in heading mode probably no more than every 5 minutes. Our PC - Nobeltec (better than our Furuno NN3 or Raymarine plotters for information feedback ) is perfect for telling the helmsman what direction to adjust the AP to follow the pre-planned course while avoiding ferries, tow barges, log booms, ships, pots, fishing vessels, buoys, logs, small boats and whales. In rain and fog, radar and AIS kick in with their information for making AP heading adjustments.

With tens of thousands of water miles, I find AP in course mode great but not necessary for blue water and AP in heading mode best for coastal. Just my pre-Ipad training I guess.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:47 AM   #54
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There is NOT much that can add value to a older sued boat. Might help sell the boat and maybe get a better price but as for survey/appraised value very little as true value. I just had a survey/appraisal done on the Eagle with 5 small recommendations: Flares expired, batteries has wing nuts instead had SS hex nuts, one rail was loose, and one of 6 bilge pumps did not work, and I had not repaint Seattle the home port on the stern. I mean he really had to stretch. Any the end result it did not increase the value over all of the Eagle that much, actually I thought it was a little low for like size age of boats.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:48 AM   #55
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AP is just a tool...either in auto or follow...ya gotta be smater than it is...both features are there for a reason.....just use the appropriate one

I use both a lot...even in similar situations...just depending on traffic/obstacles.

Hitting a charted rock might happen either way...missing it or driftink track over it...there's advantages both way if you know when and where to use them.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #56
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go to waypoint keeps you on track while hold heading doesn't correct for set and drift
it is SUCH a huge difference. Gotta pay attention either way though!
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:54 AM   #57
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There is NOT much that can add value to a older sued boat. Might help sell the boat and maybe get a better price but as for survey/appraised value very little as true value. I just had a survey/appraisal done on the Eagle with 5 small recommendations: Flares expired, batteries has wing nuts instead had SS hex nuts, one rail was loose, and one of 6 bilge pumps did not work, and I had not repaint Seattle the home port on the stern. I mean he really had to stretch. Any the end result it did not increase the value over all of the Eagle that much, actually I thought it was a little low for like size age of boats.
Please don't take it wrong...but either he stretched to fill paper..or you have one of the most perfect usedboats out there...

I have very little faith in the survey process...not necessarily surveyors as the are limited to what they really can and have to do.

Used boats are selling typically for 60-80 percent of their blue book value based on a surveyor friend of mine and my own recent experiences.

So we are all correct in saying very little is helping used boat prices due to the number out there. There are some makes, models and REALLY GOOD, CLEAN boats out there getting the big dollars but they are less than 1 or 2 in a hundred.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:55 AM   #58
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it is SUCH a huge difference.
can be...get out much? ...especially the slower you go..
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:42 PM   #59
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can be...get out much? ...especially the slower you go..
on an multi hour trip it is nice to "go to waypoint" versus "go to heading". either way, someone has to pay attention! We use the AP when we are in the SF Bay--though we do not currently have it hooked up to the GPS so we have to correct the course "fairly" frequently to stay on track and stay clear of pesky channel markers and anchored frieghters. We usually switch to stand by when dodging moving vessels (ferries and whatnot). Luckily we don't have crab pots or much in the way of logs to dodge, though in winter there may be the occasional log or telephone pole or capsized derelict vessel to navigate around. keeps things interesting.

AP doesn't do much good in the delta waterways-- they are too narrow, twisty and have too many shallow spots.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #60
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on an multi hour trip it is nice to "go to waypoint" versus "go to heading". either way, someone has to pay attention! We use the AP when we are in the SF Bay--though we do not currently have it hooked up to the GPS so we have to correct the course "fairly" frequently to stay on track and stay clear of pesky channel markers and anchored frieghters. We usually switch to stand by when dodging moving vessels (ferries and whatnot). Luckily we don't have crab pots or much in the way of logs to dodge, though in winter there may be the occasional log or telephone pole or capsized derelict vessel to navigate around. keeps things interesting.

AP doesn't do much good in the delta waterways-- they are too narrow, twisty and have too many shallow spots.
OK..then why the snide and totally INCORRECT comment "it is SUCH a huge difference."??????

Most experienced mariners KNOW the difference between navigating and being a lookout....
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