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Old 12-26-2012, 08:14 PM   #1
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replacing a window in our Defever

We are new to this boat. Had this 41' 1981 Defever for about 4 months now. It's alot of new systems to learn about. We've had her out in several wild seas and each time we're impressed with how she handles those squirrely waves that come from several directions. On our last outing we were running a small heater to keep the windows defrosted on the inside and the heat must have been too close and we started a running crack in the front pilots window. #@$%&!!!!! It appears DeFever is no longer in business and we need advice on how to go about replacing this window. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that has the templates for the DeFever? Peggy
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:37 PM   #2
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Is this a built-built up window with a separate exterior wood frame, a sill and tracks for sliding glass and so forth, or is an aluminum-framed "one piece" window that fits into place from the outside as a complete unit and is screwed to the side of the cabin?

As I understand it DeFever was not a boat builder but a boat designer. His designs were manufactured by a number of different boatyards in the US, Mexico, and Asia, although the boats were generally all called "DeFevers." So the windows in your boat will have been selected by the yard that built the boat.

They may be built-up windows constructed by the yard itself as is the case with Grand Banks boats, or if they were metal-framed "unit" windows they may have been purchased from a vendor who makes this sort of thing. Whether they used "off the shelf" windows from the vendor or had the vendor make windows to their own specifications is something perhaps one of the forum's deFever owners can tell you.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:54 PM   #3
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Greetings,
If the crack is still in it's infancy, ie: not all across the pane and not covered in dirt, it is possible an auto glass repair shop could fix the crack. 99.99% sure only one of your window laminate plies is cracked. These glass shops do this sort of thing for a living.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:31 PM   #4
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Window replacement

It is the front pilot's window. It is one solid glass, not a slider and not aluminum. Crack is already 6-8 inches across and fragmented. It is a built up window, contained in the front by a wooden frame that has plugs showing, probably screwed to the wood behind. I would have to remove the frame and expose the window to copy a template. It would be a long process and I would be unable to use the boat for quite awhile, may be my only option. I was hoping to find a template from the builder, probably in Taiwan. It is a trapezoid, would have to be custom built.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:04 AM   #5
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Greetings,
If your window is repairable, call out one of these places. Try numerous businesses. You might only be out of service for a few hours.
http://www.autoglassguru.com/ak/kodiak

Kodiak Car window repair | Car window repair in Kodiak, AK - YP.com

No affiliation with this type of business at all but I've seen some windshield repairs and they appear fine.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:35 AM   #6
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Should the glass prove unrepairable (try first, and don`t discount whoever tries to do it may have clues on how to best proceed otherwise), the old glass has to come out. You could temporarily fit perspex sheet cut to size, still use the boat or certainly keep it sealed, until the new glass is cut. You might find a specialist marine window guy,we`ve got them here, you may too.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:55 AM   #7
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I have a 2005 Defever. They are still making them in China at the POCTA yard

About Company's profiles - POCTA Yacht

I have actually contacted them in the past, and they did respond. There is also a Seattle sales office.


Horizon Yacht & Ship Brokerage (Gardena, CA)

My windows are done by Diamond Sea Glaze, one of the top window producers for yachts. They are here in the Vancouver area

Diamond Sea Glaze

One of these three sources should point you in the right direction.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:21 AM   #8
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We have built up windows with wood frames screwed and bedded to the cabin side. When we rebuild them, if we replace the glass we replace it temporarily with a piece of Plexiglas cut to the outside dimensions of the frame. We drill holes in the Plexiglas using the removed frame as a template and mount it in place of the frame using the same screws and holes the frame mounts to.

We seal the top and sides of the Plexiglas to the cabin with a very thin bead of Sikaflex. This keeps water out but makes it easy to remove when we re-install the frame after we refinish it at home.

We've gone a whole winter of using the boat with one of these temporary Plexiglas "windows" in place because we couldn't install the new glass and re-install and paint the frame until the weather got better in the spring.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:14 PM   #9
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I doubt if a 1981 Defever was built in the POCTA yard, there may be something on board mentioning the actual builder but it is not likely they will have any plans or specs on a boat that age even if the yard is still in business.
When you research having the glass cut for you make sure that you mention that it will be used for a front windshield on a boat. The glass must be strong enough to withstand a wave over the bow, do not try to go for a less expensive option. A repair from an auto glass company might stop the crack from expanding but will it be strong enough to protect you and your family?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:01 PM   #10
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Thanks for the links. I called one. $300+ to replace the old one and $72 hrly to install. We are still remote from the city of Kodiak so we're probably going to attempt doing it ourselves.


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Greetings,
If your window is repairable, call out one of these places. Try numerous businesses. You might only be out of service for a few hours.
http://www.autoglassguru.com/ak/kodiak

Kodiak Car window repair | Car window repair in Kodiak, AK - YP.com

No affiliation with this type of business at all but I've seen some windshield repairs and they appear fine.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #11
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Sure appreciate the info you supplied. We hadn't been able to gather much background on these boats. We'll bookmark Horizon Yacht Sales company.

Our boat was purchased from Sea Marine in Port Townsend. They weren't much help in supplying the history.


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I have a 2005 Defever. They are still making them in China at the POCTA yard

About Company's profiles - POCTA Yacht

I have actually contacted them in the past, and they did respond. There is also a Seattle sales office.


Horizon Yacht & Ship Brokerage (Gardena, CA)

My windows are done by Diamond Sea Glaze, one of the top window producers for yachts. They are here in the Vancouver area

Diamond Sea Glaze

One of these three sources should point you in the right direction.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #12
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Nice looking boat! Thanks for supplying us with the info you had on Defevers. Would there be a trademark stamp or code somewhere on the boat to see where she was built?


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Is this a built-built up window with a separate exterior wood frame, a sill and tracks for sliding glass and so forth, or is an aluminum-framed "one piece" window that fits into place from the outside as a complete unit and is screwed to the side of the cabin?

As I understand it DeFever was not a boat builder but a boat designer. His designs were manufactured by a number of different boatyards in the US, Mexico, and Asia, although the boats were generally all called "DeFevers." So the windows in your boat will have been selected by the yard that built the boat.

They may be built-up windows constructed by the yard itself as is the case with Grand Banks boats, or if they were metal-framed "unit" windows they may have been purchased from a vendor who makes this sort of thing. Whether they used "off the shelf" windows from the vendor or had the vendor make windows to their own specifications is something perhaps one of the forum's deFever owners can tell you.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:47 PM   #13
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Thanks for supplying us with the info you had on Defevers. Would there be a trademark stamp or code somewhere on the boat to see where she was built?
You now know pretty much everything I know about deFevers.. There are participants in this forum who know a hell of a lot more about them.

Our boat has a builder's plate that says where the boat was built and who built it. But Grand Banks boats were all built in the same yards by the same company that owned the yards. In the case of a deFever design I would think the builder's plate-- if there is one-- would include at least the name of the yard that built the boat.

You may also be able to use the HIN (hull identification number) that should be on your transom somewhere to sleuth out the boat's builder. Not sure how to go about this, however. The HIN itself contains a letter code for the builder. In the case of a GB I believe the code is GND. But whether this portion of the HIN on a deFever calls out the name the boat was sold under (deFever) or the name of the company that actually built the boat, I have no idea.

If the boat has been documented by previous owners there will be a record of this with the USCG and I believe you can get the information from them. You may even be able to do this on the web now-- boat documentation is a public record. The documentation may contain the name of the builder.

If the boat has not been documented but has been registered in Washington for some time you might be able to get some info from the state using the HIN.

I'm just making guesses and assumptions here. But they may lead you to a means of finding out what you want to know.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:14 PM   #14
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Some of the earlier numbers may be less "conforming" to the standard than current production but here are a couple of links that should help decode the number:

Hull ID Explained

USCG Builder Database

You may also want to check with the Defever Cruisers group. One of the women in that group is compiling a database of Defevers complete with historic ownership. She may be able to fill in some of the details for you.

On our hull the number is stamped into the stbd side of the transom maybe 6 inches above the waterline but YMMV. If you know your CG documentation number (required to be glassed into a stringer) then you can likely obtain your HIN from the CG database.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #15
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Bob is right. If you examine your boat's transom and don't see a HIN stamped into the hull-- the upper starboard corner is the favored or required place on newer boats; that's where it is on our 1987 Arima for example--- try under the swimstep if your boat has one. That's where the HIN is on our 1973 GB, just above the waterline on the starboard side.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:28 PM   #16
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Greetings,
Mr sworka. I did not supply the links suggesting you use the companies for replacement of the window, only for repair of the crack. Crack repairs can be done with the window in place. NO removal of ANYTHING sould be necessary and 6" of crack repair shouldn't take more than an hour I would think. Mr. Tucker raises a valid point as to the ultimate strength of a repair in defense of green water coming over the bow but I think at that point, window strength would be down the list of WTF? Most of the front windows I've seen on boats of this genre and vintage have been in the 1/4" thickness range and minimal at best to fend off on board breakers.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:15 PM   #17
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I much favor GE MarGard Lexan for front windows.
10 to 30 times stronger than glass
hard coated surface to run wipers on
cuts / drills with woodworking tools
minimal heat conduction so does not fog
DIY

What more could you ask for
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:24 AM   #18
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Mark Plastics in Corona, Ca @ 951-735-7705 has many DeFever window patterns.Nice guy, very helpful and would be a good place to start.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:59 AM   #19
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I much favor GE MarGard Lexan for front windows. 10 to 30 times stronger than glass
hard coated surface to run wipers on
That sure runs counter to everything I've been told about Lexan by one of the top plastics company in Seattle, TAP, Inc.. When talking to them about replacing our venturi panels they strongly recommended against Lexan. Lexan is stronger than Plexiglas, they said, but it is far more susceptible to scratching than Plexiglas.

For windows on a boat, they said, they always recommend laminated safety glass. For venturi panels, they always recommend Plexiglas.

And, they said, both Lexan and Plexiglas will scratch very quickly if wipers are run over them. Lexan will scratch sooner and worse than Plex but both of them will develop scratches very quickly, particularly if the wipers pick up any dirt.

The Margard coating, they told me recently, while it can hold scratching at bay for awhile, does not prevent scratching in the long run. Even the Margard literature only claims "may" help prevent scratching.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:40 AM   #20
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Before replacing the glass , I would attempt to finf out why it cracked.

Impact , no problem , but if its movement of the frame , the PH might need some work.
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