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Old 06-21-2010, 09:51 AM   #1
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

I've been through several finishes on my cap rails and the Alaska weather gets them all.*My last effort was a teak oil called Sea Finn, a product of Dayls in Seattle. Excellent products *.. *excellent company *.. *but I've had some build and I don't want build. 25% of the cap rail is mostly like varnish w warm brown color and the rest is greyish and weathered looking. I'm sure if I put more coats of the Sea Finn on it would look generally like varnish and require more sanding and coating. I want the soft oiled look like a 6' section I've done w linseed oil (after sanding) about 2 weeks ago.
Here's the question:
I've heard teak turns black after using tung oil. Does it? And does linseed oil produce the same coloring * * ..black? I suspect the tales are true but does anyone know WHY the teak turns black???. I'm hoping it's mildew and that adding mildicide to the oil the teak won't turn black if oiled frequently enough. What think??


Eric Henning
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:17 PM   #2
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

Eric---

I've used Daly's SeaFin AquaSpar (by Daly's) on teak on the inside of our GB and it's a good product. We use the satin finish but it's also available in gloss, I believe. It's a one-part, waterborne, polyurethane finish and seems quite tough. I recently used it on the minimal exterior teak on our Arima fishing boat, and so far so good, although it's only been awhile since I applied it. As to toughness, I used it on the step inside our main cabin door, so it gets trod on every time someone (or the dog) goes in and out of the boat. I did this a year ago prior to our Gulf Islands trip with guests. So far--- other than a short*white scratch courtesy of the dog--- it's held up impressively well. I believe I applied about ten coats to the step.

Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil, on the other hand, is not so great for an exterior finish. The weather will take it off pretty quick. The only use for it I've ever heard recommended by the shipwrigtt's I know who maintain the large GB charter fleet in our marina is as a temporary fix for exterior teak trim where the varnish finish has failed and been sanded down but there wasn't time to do a proper varnish repair before the boat left on its next charter. I these cases, they give the person chartering the boat a small can of teak oil and ask them to periodically apply it while they have the boat. This protects the wood from weathering so when it comes back the wood is still in good condition for a proper re-varnish job.

(This temporary repair technique will not work if you use, as we do, a finish like Bristol, because Bristol will not adhere to wood that has any sort of oil finish applied to it--- the oil must be completely removed from the wood first.)

An oil finish on exterior teak is not a Good Idea in general unless you are willing to be continually re-applying it.* A slip neighbor took all the exterior teak around the cockpit of his sailboat back to bare wood last summer and applied teak oil (I believe it was Daly's SeaFin but couldn't swear to it). If you look at his boat today, the teak has all gone back to unfinished gray. On teak decks (which I know you don't have) it can be a disaster as it traps dirt, encourages deck plank seam sealant*to loose its grip on the sides of the grooves, and ends up making (with the trapped dirt and grit) a great cutting compound that wears down the wood as you walk on it.

Teak turns black because of mold that begins to grow in the unprotected wood. Oil does a poor job of totally protecting the wood against this, which is why most shipwrights use varnish or the newer finishes like Bristol, Cetol, AquaSpar, Epifanes, etc. If the black has not become too bad, you can bleach it out of the wood with something like oxalic acid, bearing in mind that this will lighten all the teak it's applied to, not just attack the black alone. Otherwise you have no choice but to sand it out, which can end up removing a lot of wood. Best not to let it get started in the first place.

But were it our boat, I would not mess with any sort of oil on the exterior wood of a boat. To keep it looking decent, you have to keep applying it, and I mean every few weeks or so depending on what the weather is doing. If you ignore it, it will weather out and you'll end up with unprotected wood that is susceptible to crevicing and developing black mold.



-- Edited by Marin on Monday 21st of June 2010 12:22:14 PM
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:38 PM   #3
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

I been using Dalys SeaFin on our front deck to 10+ years. **Over the 10 years it has become dark brown, mostly because of the number of coats and dirty, but the best part is NO LEAKS. ***If you keep a good protective coats on like paint/varnish the moisture can not get under.* I have black under the vanished teak where moisture as gotten under. **Dailys not a oil but more of a sealer, and it does not damage the BoatLife caulking made for teak decks.* Every Sept I maintain/repair the teak deck and apply another coat of Dalys.* **
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Old 06-22-2010, 03:30 PM   #4
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

For cap rails, I use Cetol. Easy to apply and has a bit of oil and a bit of varnish - the best of both? Very light sand (320) and then two coats each spring.

-- Edited by Bendit on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 01:22:50 PM
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:41 PM   #5
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

SeaFin is definitely not an exterior grade product.* I have used Cetol, and it probably is the lowest maintenance coating.* Like all coatings, you have to reapply each year, but it brushes and levels well.

The most bullet proof coating I have used is three coats of penetrating epoxy, wet sanded flat, follwed by 8 coats of Flagship varnish.* That is a three year coating with not touch up.* Re-coat annually, and it will last 20 years plus.* The key is the epoxy substrate sealing all possible areas of water infiltration under the varnish.

This is why I now have no exterior wood, except teak steps I clean off every 6 months with a power washer.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:28 AM   #6
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

In my experience I agree that unless one is prepared to do the thorough sand and epoxy/varnish thing, and keep it in near perfect condition as Delfin describes, then Cetol does seem to be the best and certainly easier compromise, and looks good - but never quite as good - as a really nice varnish finish.
The trouble is, many folks who do the proper varnish thing, then go to so much expense and trouble fitting special covers over it all, (you know what I mean), that it takes so long to remove and replace, they end up never going out! What's the point of that? There's a Grand banks in our marina with so much canvas covering every piece of exterior timber you can hardly recognise it as a boat except for its general shape and the fact it is floating.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:20 AM   #7
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

Quote:
Peter B wrote:"... but never quite as good - as a really nice varnish finish.

There's a Grand banks in our marina with so much canvas covering every piece of exterior timber you can hardly recognise it as a boat ..."
I could not agree* more! That was certainly the case when I bought my boat and after "one time" dealing with all the caprail covers, window covers. etc., I washed and dried them all for storage. It reminded me of the days when I had seat covers to protect the leather in my new 1964 Chevy. It worked well for the next owner but I missed the enjoyment of seeing all that beautiful leather.



*
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:20 AM   #8
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

It looks like Cetol gets the popular vote. It gets the popular vote here in Alaska too. You can see that Cetol orange everywhere. It looks OK on log style houses. Not on my boat though.*Delfin,
Sounds like you've nailed the best system for varnishing * * ..epoxy prime. Any fool can see how that should work best. Don't thing I have the weather for applying the epoxy-varnish though.
What is "Flagship varnish? I'm guessing it's just a quality oyloresinious clear finish * * *..
like Interlux Schooner, McKloski's spar or any number of good products.
I think you may be wrong about Sea Finn though as I'm quite sure I remember Daly's saying it can be applied to cap rails while cruising. Marin shares your opinion though so you guys may be right and if so I can't believe I was stupid enough to use int stuff on exterior. DUH! Can't find a can in the garage so I'm not sure. I stopped using it as soon as it developed build as that always produces a finish that eventually peels.
Marin,
I'm willing to reapply more frequently than varnish but nowhere near once a month. My raw linseed oil has been on for a month and it looks the same as when I applied it. I need to re-coat though to add mildicide and perhaps pepper like in home made bottom paint.
As to the Cetol I think that's a Sikin's product and as I recall someone said they have a clear version out now. Is that the same as the orange stuff but without the orange??
I see their products here in the hardware store and it looks like many variations of "Cetol". To be convinced I'd need to do a test strip on the same board w McKloski's Spar varnish and compare.
For those just reading this thread see also the archives as this has been discussed before.
It's starting to smell like varnish around here.


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Old 06-23-2010, 10:43 AM   #9
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

Does anyone here go au natural on the teak?* It's pretty darn nice looking when it's religiously maintained.* But what a PITA!* I'm letting my varnish peel and flake off.* I may even pick up a cordless palm sander and work at it occasionally while cruising.* That way I can recharge at home between trips and sand 'till the battery is low - which will probably equal my level of interest on any given day.
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:54 PM   #10
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

Yes Cetol is a Sikkens product.
Use "Natural" not "Teak" nor any of the others for a "non-orange" result.*

-- Edited by Bendit on Wednesday 23rd of June 2010 02:01:51 PM
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:07 PM   #11
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

The steps on the*ladder from the cockpit to the boatdeck*are teak*au natural,* and I just give*them a*scrub with a Scotchbrite pad and a drop of Simple Green detergent in water every three months or so. They look fine.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:09 PM   #12
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

There's a Grand banks in our marina with so much canvas covering every piece of exterior timber you can hardly recognise it as a boat except for its general shape and the fact it is floating.
Previous owners of our boat (all in California) had custom covers made for virtually every piece of exterior teak on the boat except the cabin side trim strips.* We use them--- and my wife has made additional ones for things like the new name boards I made, the anchor windlass, etc--- and they make a huge difference in the longevity of the finish.* We generally take all the covers off in the summer (but we continue to use the window covers)*but we use the boat year round, so we simply leave them*all the rail, transom, etc. covers on*when we go out.* We remove the window covers and nameboard covers,*but that's it.

For the first year or so we religiously took all the covers off the boat (takes about 20 minutes) each time we took the boat out and then put them back on (takes about 30 minutes) when we got back.* Now we don't bother with that anymore.* If they're on and we want to take the boat out we leave them on.

But for a boat that sits in the weather year round, particularly our weather (or hot, constant sun) covers made an impressive difference in the longevity of the finish, no matter what it is.* So in our opinion, they're well worth having.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:18 PM   #13
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*
Marin,
I'm willing to reapply more frequently than varnish but nowhere near once a month. My raw linseed oil has been on for a month and it looks the same as when I applied it. I need to re-coat though to add mildicide and perhaps pepper like in home made bottom paint.
As to the Cetol I think that's a Sikin's product and as I recall someone said they have a clear version out now. Is that the same as the orange stuff but without the orange??

The longevity of an oil finish on exterior teak will depend on how much you put on and the weather in your area.* Down here, which has weather somewhat the same as yours, it doesn't seem to last all that long before it starts looking iffy and then rapidly goes away altogether.

I don't use Cetol--- I don't like the product or the look--- but you are correct, they have some newer varieties that have reduced or eliminated the "orange" tint.* And they have some that produce a more varnish-like shine compared to the original version.

As to someone else's query about leaving teak trim to weather, not a good idea in my (and the professional marine wood experts whose advice I follow) opinion.* It works fine on teak deck planks, and in fact is how they should be treated with periodic washing.

But perhaps it's because of the way things like cap rails, hand rails, grab rails, trim strips, etc are milled, exposing the grain all the way aorund, but from what I've seen on powerand sailboats in our marina that have had their teak rails and trim allowed to go grayand weather out, the wood eventually starts to crack and crevice.* Which then starts looking really bad.

So a finish on the wood--- be it varnish, Bristol, Cetol, Epiphanes, il*you name it, even teak oil--- does double duty.* It makes the teak look good if you care about that, but it also protects the wood from the detrimental effects of long-term weathering.* And once teak starts to crack and crevice (which promotes the growth of black mold down in the wood) you can't restore it, you can only replace it.

For example the teak steps on our boat that give access to the top of the aft cabin and then up to the flying bridge are unfinished.* The tops of the steps are in pretty good shape even after 37 years.* But the rounded edges of the steps where the "sides" of the veins of grain are exposed have the crevicing I spoke of.* The identical style of step on the transom, however, which has always been finished with varnish or today Bristol, is in perfect condtion all around.

When we refinish exterior teak to the point of taking the wood back to bare, we apply two or three coats of CPES (clear penetrating epoxy sealer) and then--- ideally--- eight to ten coats of Bristol, which is the finish we like to use.* But if we used varnish, we'd follow the same process.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 23rd of June 2010 02:27:48 PM
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:01 AM   #14
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

This is the product I used on a previous boat

http://ecowoodoil.com.au/our_product...niture_oil.htm

It was recommended by the paint rep

I am going to try it on the new boat as there is a bit of teak to do

I use the gold teakwood enhancer

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Old 06-24-2010, 07:37 AM   #15
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

Marin wrote.....
"For the first year or so we religiously took all the covers off the boat (takes about 20 minutes) each time we took the boat out and then put them back on (takes about 30 minutes) when we got back. Now we don't bother with that anymore. If they're on and we want to take the boat out we leave them on.

But for a boat that sits in the weather year round, particularly our weather (or hot, constant sun) covers made an impressive difference in the longevity of the finish, no matter what it is. So in our opinion, they're well worth having."

But Marin, what is the point of having all that lovely varnished teak, if you never get to enjoy it because it's covered with b***dy canvas? How relevant does that make the "longevity of the finish?" You may as well either not bother, and enjoy the canvas look, covering s****ty looking teak, with no-one the wiser...or...take the damn canvas off, and enjoy the look of the nice teak for a while - maybe touch it up once in a while with....might I suggest some natural Cetol...he..he..he. After all - like Walt says...if he covered the leather of his much-loved Chevvy, the one who benefited and got to enjoy the nice leather was the next owner - all he saw were the damn covers.....think about it. Tho having gone to all that trouble making them....I guess....yeah, shoulda saved my breath......
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:30 AM   #16
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

Tho having gone to all that trouble making them....I guess....yeah, shoulda saved my breath......
If you've stripped 252 linear feet of caprail, handrail, and bullnose*joint cover trim (below the caprail)*and well over*100 linear feet of cabin trim strips, to say nothing of grabrails, hatches, the entire transom, and so on, prepped the surfaces, and applied multiple coats of finish, you will quickly learn that covers are your best friend if you want to spend more time boating than sanding.

Don't get me wrong--- I like all the wood on older boats and would not want to remove it or paint it on ours.* But as FF said in the thread about removing a flying bridge, your boat is all about what's important to you.* WE know the exterior teak on our boat looks nice.* So WE don't care if it has covers on it or not.* If we want to impress people, we take them off.* Otherwise we just leave them on.

And when we're done with the boat if we should decide to sell it rather than scuttle it to be an octopus and rockfish house, a GB with unfinished or poorly finished trim sells for a not-insignificant amount less than a GB with nicely finished trim.* As opposed to other brands of boats, well-finished wood trim is part of what makes a GB a GB.* If one doesn't like exterior trim, or doesn't want to take the time or spend the money to keep it looking good, then one should not buy a GB.* Or at least not an older one--- the new ones have very little exterior wood on them in response to the desire of most*boat buyers today who do not want to spend the time or money or learn how to maintain exterior wood.

My wife and I enjoy working with the wood on* our boat*but we don't want to do the same things over and over again.* Hence the $10,000 worth of covers on our boat*(fortunately, it was somebody else's $10,000).


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 24th of June 2010 11:43:10 AM
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:38 PM   #17
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

I contacted the people from eco wood oil re what to use on the boat and here is their reply

"
The Garden F. Oil is a marine grade oil , the Gold colour should be used if the timber colour after a wash down does not reveal* a teaky look, otherwise if it look good while wet use the clear.


Refer to www.organoil.com.au Garden F Oil icon for timber prep. sheet.


Internally I would use the Clear G.F.O. providing the timber has not been previously coated."

I shall give it a try as it can't do any harm

Allan
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:48 AM   #18
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

ARMADA!!!

The end!

http://www.ipaint.us/arwoflco.html

Looks like varnish.....as easy as Cetol!

-- Edited by Baker on Friday 25th of June 2010 11:49:18 AM
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:20 PM   #19
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RE: Re: Linseed oil on teak

Nomadwilly,

Flagship is a Z-Spar product that is a little harder to brush compared to Schooner or Captain's, but it has more UV filters in it.* I used it on the oak rudder apron on a Cape George Cutter that ended up under water by 10" or so when under sail.* It held up without the oak going black even after a 3 month sail to the tropics.* I used the penetrating epoxy primer on that piece as well.* I used the same system on the spruce mast, and it lasted for 5 years before I had to re-coat it, so it seems like a pretty good product.* As always, they key is 8+ coats.

As the different SeaFin comments reflect, that name is now used by Daly's as a brand instead of a product, but the SeaFin oil I have used in the past doesn't hold up outside.* As I recall, it was just boiled linseed oil and tung oil, and would tend to blacken the wood after awhile, so it sounds like there are other SeaFin products that perform better that I haven't used.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:01 PM   #20
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Re: Linseed oil on teak

Quote:
Delfin wrote:

As the different SeaFin comments reflect, that name is now used by Daly's as a brand instead of a product
That would seem to be the case.* See http://<a href="http://www.dalyspain...afin.html</a>*


Use the second half of the link; the first half doesn't connect you to anything.

-- Edited by Marin on Friday 25th of June 2010 08:03:52 PM
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