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Old 09-12-2012, 11:07 AM   #61
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Move the fuel filters to more accessible location. Like I did...
Gosh, you do good work!
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:53 AM   #62
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Tom,
I like what I see a lot. Looks like you've got a really big transfer pump plumbed for 3 outlets. Two primary Racor's and one secondary. I also like the timer. Great idea. Is that pump motor a very low speed unit? Can't get over it's size. I fairly often unhooked the outlet from my transfer pump to get fuel for samples and priming after filter changes ect but I noticed some black flakes coming out of it at least once. I suspect some got into my electric lift pump and reduced it's delivery rate.
After my Alaska adventure I've got much to do w upgrades and your system and photo is an inspiration.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:44 PM   #63
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Close, Eric and thankf for the props from both of you.

What you are seeing is:
Bottom center - input manifold (recently added a non-filtered output for dedicated genset fuel supply)
Top right - output manifold
Left - two-stage primary filtration
Right - single Racor 500 scrubbing filter with 60gph pump and A/C motor with timer

Almost all the parts, short of filters, was from Grainger.

System will also do transfer at 60gph (thru filter) and is easily removed for service and filter rebuilds. Some of the downsides include inability to scrub fuel while underway and no switchable "backup" filter should it clog while underway. I had to make a few compromises to prevent it from being out of control complex and thus, not fit into space allocated. Simple is better.

I thought I had some pics of the system in a more final configuration on that thread, but maybe I started a new thread for it. Not willing to look TOO hard for them at the moment.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:29 PM   #64
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Tom,
I like what I see a lot. Looks like you've got a really big transfer pump plumbed for 3 outlets. Two primary Racor's and one secondary. I also like the timer. Great idea. Is that pump motor a very low speed unit? Can't get over it's size. I fairly often unhooked the outlet from my transfer pump to get fuel for samples and priming after filter changes ect but I noticed some black flakes coming out of it at least once. I suspect some got into my electric lift pump and reduced it's delivery rate.
After my Alaska adventure I've got much to do w upgrades and your system and photo is an inspiration.
Eric, the pump is a carbonator pump that fits directly on a 48Y/Z 120 vac motor, so no, it is not low speed. It is very quiet, can run indefinitely and is virtually indestructible. Part number and wiring diagrams are below. In the picture, the 24v unit on the right has been replaced with another carbonator motor and pump setup, with the 24v pump now used for engine oil changes.

Polishing system
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:59 PM   #65
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It is very quiet, can run indefinitely and is virtually indestructible.
Ain't that the truth! I can barely here it run and can run it while sleeping. Those 12V motors are VERY loud and have a limited cycle time.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:40 PM   #66
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My fuel-polishing pump, pictured on post #43, is pathetic.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:19 AM   #67
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We use 2 micron on everything. I believe in stopping contaminants as far from the fuel injection pump as possible.

I'm still amazed that a nearly new boat that's getting clean fuel from the fuel dock (assuming the fuel dock has good fuel) can get that kind of crud in it's filters. A fuel polisher is to treat old fuel, contaminated fuel, or fuel from dirty tanks. I think i would be very pissed if I bought a brand new boat and found it had to have its fuel polished on a regular basis in order to keep the filters from clogging up.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:26 AM   #68
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I don't have enough information to point fingers.

Meanwhile, filters and engine continue to work without fail.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:37 AM   #69
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A fuel polisher is to treat old fuel, contaminated fuel, or fuel from dirty tanks. I think i would be very pissed if I bought a brand new boat and found it had to have its fuel polished on a regular basis in order to keep the filters from clogging up.
Well not exactly. A polishing system is used to remove natural condensates from fuel to ensure refinery specs that otherwise settle to the bottom of the tanks, eventually causing problems. The more fuel, the greater the chance for problems.

The fact that Mark has construction crud in his tanks, or took on a load of crappy fuel in China is hardly a reason to condemn the quality of the build. Change the filters a few times and the issue will be a non issue.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:46 AM   #70
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Polishing fuel may get the IN the tank clean , but for most folks the tank sidewalls are the problem.

When the boat is in motion the old crud breaks off , mixes with the clean fuel, and shuts down the filter.

So switching filters underway is required, should the boat be in motion
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:56 AM   #71
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The fact that Mark has construction crud in his tanks, or took on a load of crappy fuel in China is hardly a reason to condemn the quality of the build. Change the filters a few times and the issue will be a non issue.
It is the result of failing to clean the tanks after cutting, welding, and grinding. No one told them to do it, no one inspected the tanks before they were closed up. That is a glaring example of no quality control.

That boat already dodged a very big bullet with regard to the improperly installed Cardon shaft. What is next?
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:51 AM   #72
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With regard to fuel polishing systems, here is a link to an article from PassageMaker Magazine written by Steve D'Antonio on the subject:

The Proliferation Of Fuel Polishing Systems; All Fuel Filtration Is Good

I'm not going to paste the entire article here, it's easy enough to click on the link and read it.

One of the primary points he makes is that many installations that are claimed to be fuel polishing systems are ineffective because of the low volume of fuel treated or more importanly, improper placement of the pickup and return tubes in the tank(s).
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:01 AM   #73
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Polishing fuel may get the IN the tank clean , but for most folks the tank sidewalls are the problem.

When the boat is in motion the old crud breaks off , mixes with the clean fuel, and shuts down the filter.
With a proper polishing system you never get "old crud" in the first place. Kind of the whole point.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:03 AM   #74
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"With a proper polishing system you never get "old crud" in the first place. Kind of the whole point."

Great if you are the first purchaser ,and keep up with the process.

For folks with decades old boats , the tank gunk must be removed FIRST if polishing is to work , or a new fuel tank installed.



For Racor folks National Fisherman had an article on a fuel restriction gauge that does not have to be bled to be accurate .

R2D2

www.racorgauge.com 772-529-0029
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:41 AM   #75
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"With a proper polishing system you never get "old crud" in the first place. Kind of the whole point."

Great if you are the first purchaser ,and keep up with the process.

For folks with decades old boats , the tank gunk must be removed FIRST if polishing is to work , or a new fuel tank installed.


Sounds like an endorsement of polishing systems for new boats, or old ones who have had to have their tanks cleaned. I agree. I disagree that old boats who haven't had their tanks cleaned don't benefit on the grounds of common sense, simply because if the crud can come loose and plug filters supplying fuel to the engine, it can be polished out by filters that aren't supplying engine fuel. After all, a basic polishing system is all the professional cleaner generally uses anyway. Eventually, no more crud to break loose. The only argument against a properly designed system with adequate flow that makes sense to me is one having small tanks that burn through the fuel so quickly nothing has time to precipitate out of the fuel.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:04 AM   #76
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A far simpler system is simply to install a proper tank. not a box of fuel.

With a proper tank the water in fuel is trapped (gravity is your friend) in a sump that is easily emptied.

No ongoing cost (filters hoses motors and power) as with out water IN the fuel there are no bugs , and no tank walls covered with gunk.

In the archives is proper tank design information.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:29 AM   #77
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1983 boat with original tanks that hold way too much fuel. Had a problem clogging filters when I bought it. Installed multi stage filtration. No problems since.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:37 AM   #78
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Fuel with moisture in it qualifies as "bad fuel" in my book.

By your standards there is no place in the world to fuel up , as moisture (WATER) is present in all fuel .

Fuel to be sold must meet a spec on the quantity of water that is permitted , but for sure its in every gallon you purchase.

"Too much" water in the fuel can be prevented with a Baja filter , but its a slow process to load 1/2 ton of fuel.
I'm sure you are trying to make a point with this post, but I am unable to determine what that point might be.

Care to elaborate?
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:45 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
A far simpler system is simply to install a proper tank. not a box of fuel.

With a proper tank the water in fuel is trapped (gravity is your friend) in a sump that is easily emptied.

No ongoing cost (filters hoses motors and power) as with out water IN the fuel there are no bugs , and no tank walls covered with gunk.

In the archives is proper tank design information.
I have old tanks and replace the dirty Racors every 6 months and they come out black.....similar to the OP. My Racor collects 0 drops of water and i have never experienced a clogged 2 micron filter. So the dirt I am seeing is what?
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:52 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
A far simpler system is simply to install a proper tank. not a box of fuel.

With a proper tank the water in fuel is trapped (gravity is your friend) in a sump that is easily emptied.

No ongoing cost (filters hoses motors and power) as with out water IN the fuel there are no bugs , and no tank walls covered with gunk.

In the archives is proper tank design information.

I agree with you,but some boats don't have the required space to use a sump and slopped bottom type tank.I know you already know this.
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