Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-09-2012, 11:37 AM   #41
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood8118 View Post
The statement that contaminants only get in with bad fuel is incorrect, remember that air is also drawn into our tanks as fuel is drawn out...and if that air is humid ... we get moisture into our fuel.
Fuel with moisture in it qualifies as "bad fuel" in my book. My statement was that the contaminants can only enter the filter with the fuel. There is only one inlet.
__________________
Advertisement

rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 11:43 AM   #42
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Fuel with moisture in it qualifies as "bad fuel" in my book. My statement was that the contaminants can only enter the filter with the fuel. There is only one inlet.

ok... what I Was trying to point out was that even if you get good fuel...even if you polish it... you CAN get moisture into the fuel system through the vent system. the racor should handle this... but the fuel may get " buggy" because of the induced moisture.
HOLLYWOOD
__________________

hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 01:40 PM   #43
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP View Post

Does the Coot have a fuel polishing system? You might want to run all your fuel thru it a few times.
Yes, it has a polishing system and move the fuel from one of the "raw" fuel tanks to a polished-fuel tank. Problem is, the polishing system moves fuel so slowly that I often send raw fuel directly to the engine. Think I need higher-capacity filters and/or pump on the polishing system.

The two filters to the right (the Griffin is a Chinese equivalent of a Racor and their filters are interchangeable) are on the polishing circuit. Its pump is below the Racor on the left.



Anyway, the Racors are doing their job.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 02:32 PM   #44
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
Mark:
Last comment!!!
Given the amount of fuel you carry your filter system looks a bot on the light side.
We carry 900 gallons but use 2 Racor 900's (not 500's) and use the big F1 Gulf Coast (not the small one). Perhaps your polishing system is a bit marginal?

Good luck. Let us know if you ever work out what is really happening!!
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 09:27 PM   #45
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,573
As others say,a biocide is an obvious first step,something is growing in there. It is hard to accept it is only in the filters, has to be coming from somewhere upstream.
If you decide to add biocide,to get an even mix, put the amount required to treat the tank volume into 5 or 10 litres of fuel and add it to the tanks just before filling. BruceK
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 07:12 AM   #46
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
a lot of guessing going on......maybe send a fuel sample out for analysis to see if the fuel is even the problem????

or like I said from the vey beginning...if your fuel is clear and bright and the filter element of the used filter is bright pink...I wouldn't worry and just wipe clean the standby filter clean if it bothers you.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 08:09 AM   #47
Newbie
 
Conepatus's Avatar
 
City: Boquete
Country: Panama
Vessel Name: Conepatus
Vessel Model: Rosborough Roughwater Cruiser 9.11
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to Conepatus
5 Micron is way to fine for the first fuel filters. A really good size is 20 micron and the final filters on the engine are the 5 or 2 micron depending on the engine manufacturer. Using 5 micron on the 1st filter just begs for a clogged filter on the 1st rough passage when you shake the crude loose in the tank.

Another issue that has happened to me is that the engine has a very good fuel lift pump and when the Racor element plugged, the suction was enough to rupture the filter element and let the muck through to the final engine filters. Glad the engine had its own filters.
__________________
CM Owings
RHIB Conepatus
Conepatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 09:06 AM   #48
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
Totally disagree with using 20 micron Racor. We use 2 micron and could see using a 5 micron but why go bigger. The 2 micron on the engine is much more difficult to change when underway. We only change it occasionally always at the dock. The possibility of an air lock after changing is real and not something to risk unnecessarily underway. If you have a back-up secondary Racor ready to switch, then changing out a clogged primary Racor is simple.
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 09:18 AM   #49
Newbie
 
Conepatus's Avatar
 
City: Boquete
Country: Panama
Vessel Name: Conepatus
Vessel Model: Rosborough Roughwater Cruiser 9.11
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to Conepatus
20 Micron

Not sure on other engines, but on the Yanmar & Westerbeke that I had in the boat for 30 years never had a problem. Originally I used the same logic of a 5 micron as the 1st filter and the factory 2micron on the engine.

What I found is that you needed to change the Racor often, specially when rocking and rolling in a bad weather in the lower Caribbean. When I changed into the 20 / 2 combination I found that I could change every 400 hrs both filters and never had a plugged filter after making that change.

Also on the Yanmar the engine filter has a manual pump on it, so pumping up the fuel system is only a few moments. Again, not sure on other engines .... some could be a problem I guess.
__________________
CM Owings
RHIB Conepatus
Conepatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:43 PM   #50
JD
Guru
 
JD's Avatar
 
City: New Bern NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stella Di Mare
Vessel Model: Mainship 34t
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
Totally disagree with using 20 micron Racor. We use 2 micron and could see using a 5 micron but why go bigger. The 2 micron on the engine is much more difficult to change when underway. We only change it occasionally always at the dock. The possibility of an air lock after changing is real and not something to risk unnecessarily underway. If you have a back-up secondary Racor ready to switch, then changing out a clogged primary Racor is simple.

I have been to a Mack Boring engine class and in that class it was stated that Yanmar wants a 30 micron first stage filter for all of their engines and then the factory final 2 micron. My guess is that the factory knows best so why not comply. It really doesn't cost anymore to do it their way.
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 03:57 PM   #51
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
Just so happens we have a Cummins!! And with a couple thousand hours under our belt (and braces) will still stick to 2 micron!! Also used to work in the microfiltration industry for a couple of decades.
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 05:55 PM   #52
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
The head mechanic at the local shipyard, which sells and services Cummins among others, recommends 30 micron first stage Racor with the factory 2 micron on engine filter.
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 06:04 PM   #53
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
I think we've been down this path before. I'm in the 2 micron Racor, 2 micron CAV crowd. Others are in the graduated camp.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 07:42 PM   #54
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
I think we've been down this path before.
Yup.
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 06:15 AM   #55
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
The key to keep the engine running is not the size of the initial filter , rather its weather you have an alarm that lets you know when the filter is plugging and a fast easy switch over to a second filter.

Then the first can be swopped out and returned on line.

Filters are cheap by the case , and if located outside the engine room can be changed with ease.
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 11:24 AM   #56
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
Mark - For whatever reason you have lots of crud on your primaries. My guess is steel dust from all the steel floor grinding - I've been in Chinese steel fabrication shops and observed the house keeping, not always the best recipe for steel boat building. For a new vessel this indicates a good tank cleaning is in order (not a big deal if ou have access), not just a fuel polishing.

FYI, my 9 year old China steel tanks have thus far been pristine. DeFever though had a QC guy following things pretty closely. My primaries (30u of course!) are relativley spotless after a year, supporting Marin's earlier point.

RIck's point on PAE is worth noting, they offer superb long after sale coverage on workmanship issues. In this case, I guess you get what you pay for.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 12:51 PM   #57
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
I like Tom's post. I worked in a machine shop/fab shop for years and there's a lot of black steel floating around in the air. You can sweep it up off the floor.
The description of where the black stuff was and the proximity of the "turbine" part of the filter suggests that heavy stuff would indeed be found there.
My Racor had a 2 micron when new but I switched to 10. I have been getting my engine mounted secondary filter from NAPA and don't know it's rating. My Racor element has come out w a grayish hue color near the bottom. I've thought it was a black mould growth or similar. My tanks are aluminum and 7 years old. I don't think my engine failure this summer was related to any of this. I'm thinking hose and fitting or weak pump now.
Too bad diesel engines are so clean fuel dependent.
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 06:23 AM   #58
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
Fuel with moisture in it qualifies as "bad fuel" in my book.

By your standards there is no place in the world to fuel up , as moisture (WATER) is present in all fuel .

Fuel to be sold must meet a spec on the quantity of water that is permitted , but for sure its in every gallon you purchase.

"Too much" water in the fuel can be prevented with a Baja filter , but its a slow process to load 1/2 ton of fuel.
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 09:40 AM   #59
Curmudgeon
 
BaltimoreLurker's Avatar
 
City: Stoney Creek, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moon Dance
Vessel Model: 1974 34' Marine Trader Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,629
Ummm, 5 years on my (Baldwin, I think) filters so far. Maybe I need to get around to changing them. Never a problem and they "look" OK.

Such a PITA location to get at though.
BaltimoreLurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 10:22 AM   #60
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaltimoreLurker View Post
Ummm, 5 years on my (Baldwin, I think) filters so far. Maybe I need to get around to changing them. Never a problem and they "look" OK.

Such a PITA location to get at though.
Sounds like a good Winter project. Move the fuel filters to more accessible location. Like I did... (Thread: The Fuel System Upgrade Project: Episode II )

__________________

__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fuel, polishing, racor

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012