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Old 03-25-2016, 10:26 AM   #1
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Protecting risers inner surface from rust

Good news about Permatex Ultra Copper gasket maker.
Two years ago I replaced an exhaust adapter, after I had earlier replaced the other exhaust adapter a few years earlier.
The first replacement I had not coated the inside. Had major flaking rusting so I built it back up with bronze rod. this is a steel part that joins the log exhaust manifold to the riser.




The second replacement I had coated the inside with Ultra Copper, and there is absolutely no rust at all. I cleaned off the soot and you can see the Ultra Copper still is there underneath the burnt on carbon.

The lower part of the inside pipe you can just see the Ultra copper, the baked on carbon was tough to clean and I wanted to show you that it survived inside the exhaust stream.



So I do not need to braze, I can just coat the other engines adapters and the inside end of the exhaust manifold with Ultra Copper.
Of course it could be the other two adapters on the other engine are rusted so much they will need brazing.

Link to ultra copper
Gasket Makers : Permatex® Ultra Copper® Maximum Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker

Says good to 700*F. I also think that this ultra copper insulates the metal from the exhaust heat a little. And I think inside a water cooled exhaust manifold the wall temperature of the cast iron manifold exposed directly to exhaust runs cooler than in a non water cooled manifold. So I bet you could coat the entire inside surface of a water cooled manifold that is exposed to exhaust gasses and the coating would survive intact. It certainly survived the heat inside the small short adapter and there is no cooling water flow for that.

Adding pics of the exhaust riser.
It would be nice to be able to coat the inside of this riser to prevent rust. I could remove all the rust, but how could you coat it? The riser bends, I had thought of a swab on a metal stick.
See the inside exhaust surface of a riser still rusts even if it is fresh water cooled.

To left is where I brazed on a 3 inch bronze pipe 16 years ago.
That has never corroded even with hot salt water and exhaust.

Red hose injects salt water.
The other 2 pipe nipples circulate antifreeze water, the FWC part of the coolant flow.
This keeps the water passage from rusting.



Inside down the pipe view where exhaust exits. Cast iron is rusty.


Lower end where adapter attaches


Where the adapter attaches to the 50 year old FWC exhaust manifolds, a small amount of cast iron erosion was occurring, ate up half the wall thickness, only at the very end about 1/2 inch. This one I built up with bronze rod. But the other 3, I plan now to use the Permatex Ultra Copper instead to fill up the metal. First I will clean the casting. It does not have to real clean, the Permatex Ultra copper sticks regardless. Rotary wire brush is all it needs.





Entire log riser made by Palmer.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:40 PM   #2
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Wow, great idea I may use. I'd love to see your photos, but for some reason they don't work for me. Thanks for posting.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:05 PM   #3
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same here - no pics
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:26 PM   #4
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No pics, love to see them
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Old 03-25-2016, 05:41 PM   #5
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Hi, ok the sharing I have tried to change, are they visible now?
See I was using web picasa, then Google tries to make me use Google Photos. I shared a 'collection', then I was just adding pictures to a shared collection but it seems the added in pictures do not share. I mean if you have a shared album you would think if you add pictures all the added pictures would share.

Darn, no pictures are showing up for me if I dont log in to Google. Google seems to have changed sharing of pictures as links used to work. It even looks like I can not share a link to the album. I will have to upload the pictures to this site. The only people who can see this is if your in my circle.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:10 PM   #6
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Ok can anyone see this and what does it look like?
https://goo.gl/photos/b2RkHMbEotQtuPZU7
I like pictures inline, so I guess I cant use google photos anymore.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:13 PM   #7
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Here is the adapter I brazed since it was loaded with flaky rust
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:15 PM   #8
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Here is the Permatex ultra copper coated adapter.
There is no rust, and it has been on the engine for 2 years and in salt water.
It may even have been Permatex Red gasket maker, both seems to be good to *700.
Only the ultra copper is marketed for exhaust pipe.
I cleaned this adapter back to bare metal and will give it a fresh coat inside and out of Ultra Copper.
All I had done was coat the inside pipe with like 2 layers. Ultra Copper also works fine for exhaust gaskets so far for me.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:20 PM   #9
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Here is the exhaust manifold I brazed in the end to fill up where some rust was.
Oddly there was no flaky rust there. The bronze filler should stop rust. I filled in where the cast iron had eroded.
Only on the very end was a problem.

Since the Ultra Copper did so well, on the other 3 exhaust manifolds I plant just use that. Saves a lot of trouble brazing cast iron.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:25 PM   #10
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Here is the riser. Risers rust on the exhaust passage. My riser is very simple, only one water injector.
I added the bronze pipe on the left and closed the water circuit in the riser back in 2000, so it is now fresh water cooled. The red hose injects raw salt water, the pipe niples are FWC circuit.

You can see the riser still gets rusty. This was a brand new riser in 2000. It is still serviceable and been in salt water the whole time.

The exhaust adapter is a ring flange , and there are 2 small parts that bolt to riser and grab the ring on the adapter and that allow this riser to rotate 360* if desired.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:28 PM   #11
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very impressive, congrats.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:32 PM   #12
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wow that one pic was kind of traumatizing. It was like looking at a colonosco....

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Old 03-25-2016, 06:40 PM   #13
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Back to my idea of coating the inside exhaust surface of the riser, I can clean out the rust using vinegar and sand blasting. But I wonder how to coat it since it has those bends. Between the bends, the pipe surface is impossible to see.
Does anyone know if you can thin Permatex gasket maker into a liquid like paint?

One idea I had was use a soft ball of something, load it up with gasket maker and drag it through the pipe multiple times letting it cure between coats.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:07 AM   #14
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So let me get this straight, you're trying to coat the inside of your exhaust manifold with silicone gasket sealant?
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
So let me get this straight, you're trying to coat the inside of your exhaust manifold with silicone gasket sealant?
Yes, in the riser, simply to prevent rusting, why not?
I am still thinking about how this could be done. The difficulty is in after the bend, cant see what your doing.
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Old 04-29-2016, 08:55 PM   #16
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That's a pretty risky place to try to save a few dollars.
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:53 AM   #17
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Why not ceramic

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsharp View Post
That's a pretty risky place to try to save a few dollars.
As I was searching for a company to rebuild my risers, one company in Texas suggested ceramic coating. Sounded like that might be a smart idea. Anyone or there try this?

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