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02-17-2015, 09:52 PM
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#101
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Scraping Paint
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
I wonder how much extra fuel is burned and hydrocarbons emitted by boats going around with uncleaned bottoms.
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In the case of slow diesel cruisers like a lot of us have, probably not much at 6 to 8 knots. In the case of boats like our crusing companions' lobsterboat which cruises at 15-16 knots, it probably makes a pretty significant difference.
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02-17-2015, 09:56 PM
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#102
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Guru
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin
In the case of slow diesel cruisers like a lot of us have, probably not much at 6 to 8 knots. In the case of boats like our crusing companions' lobsterboat which cruises at 15-16 knots, it probably makes a pretty significant difference.
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Perhaps, but the question remains; does the harm done to the marine environment by in-water hull cleaning activities outweigh the harm done by the fossil fuels burned by boats that now do not get to have their bottoms cleaned?
__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
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02-17-2015, 10:12 PM
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#103
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Scraping Paint
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
Perhaps, but the question remains; does the harm done to the marine environment by in-water hull cleaning activities outweigh the harm done by the fossil fuels burned by boats that now do not get to have their bottoms cleaned?
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The environmental folks seem to think so.
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02-17-2015, 10:20 PM
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#104
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
I wonder how much extra fuel is burned and hydrocarbons are emitted by boats going around with uncleaned bottoms.
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Not much I bet. Because those boat tend to be the ones that don't move much if at all.
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02-17-2015, 10:27 PM
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#105
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Scraping Paint
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
Not much I bet. Because those boat tend to be the ones that don't move much if at all.
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Good point. The ones that do move a fair amount tend to have ablative paint on them (up here, anyway) and they "clean themselves" while they're underway.
And the ones that don't move and have slimy, mossy, weedy bottoms are helping the environment by providing food and a place to hide for little fishes. Which when they do swim out provide food for the herons that stalk our docks at night. Which in turn fertilize the trees and bushes with their poop. Which in turn provides habitats and food for mice and birds and slugs and stuff.
So dirty bottoms are, in fact, great for the environment. Cleaning them is actually commiting a crime against nature.
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02-17-2015, 10:29 PM
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#106
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin
And the ones that don't move and have slimy, mossy, weedy bottoms are helping the environment by providing food and a place to hide for the little fishes.
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I call those boats surface reefs.
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02-17-2015, 11:05 PM
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#107
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Guru
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
Not much I bet. Because those boat tend to be the ones that don't move much if at all.
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You missed the point. In Marin's marina, nobody can have their bottom cleaned, whether the boats get used much or not.
__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
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02-17-2015, 11:31 PM
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#108
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Scraping Paint
City: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
You missed the point. In Marin's marina, nobody can have their bottom cleaned, whether the boats get used much or not.
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The point is that the boats that get used clean their own bottoms because just about everybody around here uses ablative paint. The boats that just sit feed the fishes.
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02-18-2015, 06:34 AM
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#109
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
You missed the point.
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I think not.
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02-18-2015, 09:17 AM
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#110
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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I refused to pay for Prop Speed and used this Pettit product called Barnacle Buster (I think). Haven't been in the water very long so have no performance reports but several here on the forum reported good results. Cost .... about $14. It's grey color as in the pic.
In a lot of places Prop Speed is well worth the money but when there's no need to go latest and high tech usually it's a waste of money. Some of the places well south of the US PNW need much better anti-fowling protection and Prop Speed could be well worth the expenditure but using it "just because" leans toward the "D" and the "S" words. What did people do in the past? A lot of people here think the past is "S" and "D".
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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02-18-2015, 09:59 AM
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#111
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,307
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Before Prop Speed my prop would be heavely fouled long before the rest of the bottom needed cleaning. With Prop Speed And modern anti foul paints I can go better than a year without cleaning the prop or bottom. No I'm not tolerant of fouling.
To my surprise I picked up both RPM and almost a knot of top speed when I applied Prop Speed.
At my next, well past due, haul out I'm going to try Velox. My understanding is that Velox uses a poison and Prop Speed doesn't.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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02-18-2015, 10:08 AM
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#112
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Guru
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar
My understanding is that Velox uses a poison and Prop Speed doesn't.
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Prop Speed is a "foul release" coating, meaning it provides a surface too slippery for fouling organisms to readily attach. Velox uses several forms of zinc to retard growth, much like the current crop of zinc-based anti fouling paints for hulls.
__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
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02-18-2015, 01:57 PM
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#113
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Guru
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,218
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I pulled my boat last week after 2 years in brackish water, and was surprised at how clean it was. The prop had been treated with Prop Speed, and looked great other than a few small barnacles where the coating had broken down (possibly due to galvanic corrosion)
The hull only required a light spray wash to remove the slime, and a little more growth on the waterline.
The only big growth area was the stainless rudder shoe. It was barnacle city. I painted the stainless shoe with a $8 can of high zinc spray paint. I don't know if it will help, but it will be be a low cost test.
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02-18-2015, 03:52 PM
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#114
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 211
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You can use Prop Speed/Gold and Velox on any metal protruberance (you could use it on the whole boat I think) the only restriction is cost (and if you do it yourself, time). If these items preferentially foul, (rudder, etc) then they might be worth doing - otherwise a decent AF should be suitable. But rudders enjoy a lot of wash (and sometimes abrasion from cavitation) from the prop and ablative paints can be stripped off quite quickly - so a hard AF might be a better idea. You might need caution with Prop Gold/Speed - the silicone might strip off easily. One needs to look at the boat when it comes out of the water and knowing what was applied last time - make a decision on whether different paints in different areas might be advantageous.
Previous to the modern treatments people tried everything you can imagine, stove black (graphite) was one, lanolin anther. The idea was to produce a slippery surface - we found that marine organisms ate the lanolin and then set up home there!
Be very cautious of experiences from cold water areas - in Europe for example many slip their boats for 6 months, so when they report good results they omit to mention a season is only half a year.
On the horizon are 3 pack fluoro polymers, used by Navies round the world and Cruise ships (Cunard, Princess et al), Desparately expensive and require skilled application but life of 12 years is being quoted. They are also quite toxic to make and apply (which is one reason they are not available to us). They are very difficult to repair and once you use them you then commit to using them for life as they are very difficult to remove and allow a conventional paint to be applied (the paint falls off). They are a modern version of Prop Speed/Gold. Most of the big surface coating companies make them. Currently they only appear to be packed in bulk (oil barrels). It is said they actually reduce fuel consumption and increase max cruising speeds because they are so slippery. A few trials have been run on leisure vessels but it does not seem to have caught on yet (I know of trails - one in America and one in Europe). The surface coatings companies are aware we represent a market - but have not found a way to service us yet. In Oz it takes 6-7 years to get approval for any new AF paint for amateur/leisure usage - I can see why the surface coating companies are not rushing in!
Jonathan
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02-18-2015, 04:27 PM
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#115
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan
I pulled my boat last week after 2 years in brackish water, and was surprised at how clean it was. The prop had been treated with Prop Speed, and looked great other than a few small barnacles where the coating had broken down (possibly due to galvanic corrosion)....
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Can I tap your experience, I`m about to apply P/S for the first time. Is it maintainable? Next haulout, do you strip the lot and redo, or touch up broken down areas, or recoat over the existing, or a combination?
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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02-18-2015, 08:36 PM
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#116
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
Can I tap your experience, I`m about to apply P/S for the first time. Is it maintainable? Next haulout, do you strip the lot and redo, or touch up broken down areas, or recoat over the existing, or a combination?
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The trick to making Propspeed last is to not brush it off with anything abrasive when you wipe it down under water. A gloved hand or sponge is about all you want to lightly wipe it down with.
You have to redo it completely. You can't touch it up. Well, should amend that a bit. You can touch it up but by the time you get around to it, as in a year or more later, it ends up being time to redo the whole job.
And it is only applied to metal.
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02-18-2015, 08:51 PM
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#117
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Guru
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
Can I tap your experience, I`m about to apply P/S for the first time. Is it maintainable? Next haulout, do you strip the lot and redo, or touch up broken down areas, or recoat over the existing, or a combination?
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Bruce,
I'm still on my first trial of Propspeed, but I've been told that all the old coating must be scraped off before recoating.
The acid etching primer; and the prop speed clear coating must be replaced each time.
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02-19-2015, 12:37 AM
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#118
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan
Bruce,
I'm still on my first trial of Propspeed, but I've been told that all the old coating must be scraped off before recoating.
The acid etching primer; and the prop speed clear coating must be replaced each time.
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+1
You need to strip with abrasive and get down to bare metal, each time. Velox has the advantage that if the coating is sound you only need to clean, abrade lightly (to form a new key) and then recoat with the active top coat.
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08-12-2017, 08:42 AM
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#119
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Guru
City: Cape Cod
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,219
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After 3 months I dove on the boat yesterday. Sorry no pics! The prop which I had done with Velox was almost completely barnacle free. There were a couple barnacle 'foot prints' where they had been slung off during use. But this is MUCH better that anything I've tried previous.
I did not use Velox on the hub. The prop guy I used recommended leaving the black epoxy on around the hub. I wish I had removed it all and veloxed the entire prop!
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08-12-2017, 09:43 AM
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#120
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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My exposed metals used to accumulate huge growth. My shafts went from 1 1/2" to almost 3". My props were not much better. And I tried all the local remedies. I even took my props to a plating company and paid to have them copper plated. No, even that didn't work.
NOw at haul time my shafts have spotted growth and not much at all; same with the props.
My solution was to first clean all the metal growth as best I could. Next, sprayed the metals with zinc chromate or whatever is in Rustolium's so called product. The paint bonded to the metals well and acted as bonding agent for bottom paint which I next applied. The bottom paint was nothing special other than it was a hard bottom paint rather than ablative.
This works..........at least it works well for me and it is inexpensive!
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