Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-17-2015, 10:52 PM   #101
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
I wonder how much extra fuel is burned and hydrocarbons emitted by boats going around with uncleaned bottoms.
In the case of slow diesel cruisers like a lot of us have, probably not much at 6 to 8 knots. In the case of boats like our crusing companions' lobsterboat which cruises at 15-16 knots, it probably makes a pretty significant difference.
__________________
Advertisement

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2015, 10:56 PM   #102
Senior Member
 
fstbttms's Avatar
 
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
In the case of slow diesel cruisers like a lot of us have, probably not much at 6 to 8 knots. In the case of boats like our crusing companions' lobsterboat which cruises at 15-16 knots, it probably makes a pretty significant difference.
Perhaps, but the question remains; does the harm done to the marine environment by in-water hull cleaning activities outweigh the harm done by the fossil fuels burned by boats that now do not get to have their bottoms cleaned?
__________________

__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2015, 11:12 PM   #103
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Perhaps, but the question remains; does the harm done to the marine environment by in-water hull cleaning activities outweigh the harm done by the fossil fuels burned by boats that now do not get to have their bottoms cleaned?
The environmental folks seem to think so.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2015, 11:20 PM   #104
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
I wonder how much extra fuel is burned and hydrocarbons are emitted by boats going around with uncleaned bottoms.
Not much I bet. Because those boat tend to be the ones that don't move much if at all.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2015, 11:27 PM   #105
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Not much I bet. Because those boat tend to be the ones that don't move much if at all.
Good point. The ones that do move a fair amount tend to have ablative paint on them (up here, anyway) and they "clean themselves" while they're underway.

And the ones that don't move and have slimy, mossy, weedy bottoms are helping the environment by providing food and a place to hide for little fishes. Which when they do swim out provide food for the herons that stalk our docks at night. Which in turn fertilize the trees and bushes with their poop. Which in turn provides habitats and food for mice and birds and slugs and stuff.

So dirty bottoms are, in fact, great for the environment. Cleaning them is actually commiting a crime against nature.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2015, 11:29 PM   #106
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post

And the ones that don't move and have slimy, mossy, weedy bottoms are helping the environment by providing food and a place to hide for the little fishes.
I call those boats surface reefs.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 12:05 AM   #107
Senior Member
 
fstbttms's Avatar
 
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Not much I bet. Because those boat tend to be the ones that don't move much if at all.
You missed the point. In Marin's marina, nobody can have their bottom cleaned, whether the boats get used much or not.
__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 12:31 AM   #108
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
You missed the point. In Marin's marina, nobody can have their bottom cleaned, whether the boats get used much or not.
The point is that the boats that get used clean their own bottoms because just about everybody around here uses ablative paint. The boats that just sit feed the fishes.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 07:34 AM   #109
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
You missed the point.
I think not.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 10:17 AM   #110
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,701
I refused to pay for Prop Speed and used this Pettit product called Barnacle Buster (I think). Haven't been in the water very long so have no performance reports but several here on the forum reported good results. Cost .... about $14. It's grey color as in the pic.

In a lot of places Prop Speed is well worth the money but when there's no need to go latest and high tech usually it's a waste of money. Some of the places well south of the US PNW need much better anti-fowling protection and Prop Speed could be well worth the expenditure but using it "just because" leans toward the "D" and the "S" words. What did people do in the past? A lot of people here think the past is "S" and "D".
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF1679 copy 2.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	120.5 KB
ID:	37526  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 10:59 AM   #111
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,489
Before Prop Speed my prop would be heavely fouled long before the rest of the bottom needed cleaning. With Prop Speed And modern anti foul paints I can go better than a year without cleaning the prop or bottom. No I'm not tolerant of fouling.

To my surprise I picked up both RPM and almost a knot of top speed when I applied Prop Speed.

At my next, well past due, haul out I'm going to try Velox. My understanding is that Velox uses a poison and Prop Speed doesn't.
__________________
Parks Masterson
www.hopkins-carter.com
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 11:08 AM   #112
Senior Member
 
fstbttms's Avatar
 
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
My understanding is that Velox uses a poison and Prop Speed doesn't.
Prop Speed is a "foul release" coating, meaning it provides a surface too slippery for fouling organisms to readily attach. Velox uses several forms of zinc to retard growth, much like the current crop of zinc-based anti fouling paints for hulls.
__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 02:57 PM   #113
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
I pulled my boat last week after 2 years in brackish water, and was surprised at how clean it was. The prop had been treated with Prop Speed, and looked great other than a few small barnacles where the coating had broken down (possibly due to galvanic corrosion)

The hull only required a light spray wash to remove the slime, and a little more growth on the waterline.
The only big growth area was the stainless rudder shoe. It was barnacle city. I painted the stainless shoe with a $8 can of high zinc spray paint. I don't know if it will help, but it will be be a low cost test.
AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 04:52 PM   #114
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 211
You can use Prop Speed/Gold and Velox on any metal protruberance (you could use it on the whole boat I think) the only restriction is cost (and if you do it yourself, time). If these items preferentially foul, (rudder, etc) then they might be worth doing - otherwise a decent AF should be suitable. But rudders enjoy a lot of wash (and sometimes abrasion from cavitation) from the prop and ablative paints can be stripped off quite quickly - so a hard AF might be a better idea. You might need caution with Prop Gold/Speed - the silicone might strip off easily. One needs to look at the boat when it comes out of the water and knowing what was applied last time - make a decision on whether different paints in different areas might be advantageous.

Previous to the modern treatments people tried everything you can imagine, stove black (graphite) was one, lanolin anther. The idea was to produce a slippery surface - we found that marine organisms ate the lanolin and then set up home there!

Be very cautious of experiences from cold water areas - in Europe for example many slip their boats for 6 months, so when they report good results they omit to mention a season is only half a year.

On the horizon are 3 pack fluoro polymers, used by Navies round the world and Cruise ships (Cunard, Princess et al), Desparately expensive and require skilled application but life of 12 years is being quoted. They are also quite toxic to make and apply (which is one reason they are not available to us). They are very difficult to repair and once you use them you then commit to using them for life as they are very difficult to remove and allow a conventional paint to be applied (the paint falls off). They are a modern version of Prop Speed/Gold. Most of the big surface coating companies make them. Currently they only appear to be packed in bulk (oil barrels). It is said they actually reduce fuel consumption and increase max cruising speeds because they are so slippery. A few trials have been run on leisure vessels but it does not seem to have caught on yet (I know of trails - one in America and one in Europe). The surface coatings companies are aware we represent a market - but have not found a way to service us yet. In Oz it takes 6-7 years to get approval for any new AF paint for amateur/leisure usage - I can see why the surface coating companies are not rushing in!

Jonathan
Djbangi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 05:27 PM   #115
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan View Post
I pulled my boat last week after 2 years in brackish water, and was surprised at how clean it was. The prop had been treated with Prop Speed, and looked great other than a few small barnacles where the coating had broken down (possibly due to galvanic corrosion)....
Can I tap your experience, I`m about to apply P/S for the first time. Is it maintainable? Next haulout, do you strip the lot and redo, or touch up broken down areas, or recoat over the existing, or a combination?
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 09:36 PM   #116
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Can I tap your experience, I`m about to apply P/S for the first time. Is it maintainable? Next haulout, do you strip the lot and redo, or touch up broken down areas, or recoat over the existing, or a combination?
The trick to making Propspeed last is to not brush it off with anything abrasive when you wipe it down under water. A gloved hand or sponge is about all you want to lightly wipe it down with.

You have to redo it completely. You can't touch it up. Well, should amend that a bit. You can touch it up but by the time you get around to it, as in a year or more later, it ends up being time to redo the whole job.

And it is only applied to metal.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2015, 09:51 PM   #117
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Can I tap your experience, I`m about to apply P/S for the first time. Is it maintainable? Next haulout, do you strip the lot and redo, or touch up broken down areas, or recoat over the existing, or a combination?
Bruce,
I'm still on my first trial of Propspeed, but I've been told that all the old coating must be scraped off before recoating.

The acid etching primer; and the prop speed clear coating must be replaced each time.
AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2015, 01:37 AM   #118
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusCan View Post
Bruce,
I'm still on my first trial of Propspeed, but I've been told that all the old coating must be scraped off before recoating.

The acid etching primer; and the prop speed clear coating must be replaced each time.
+1

You need to strip with abrasive and get down to bare metal, each time. Velox has the advantage that if the coating is sound you only need to clean, abrade lightly (to form a new key) and then recoat with the active top coat.
Djbangi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 09:42 AM   #119
Guru
 
cappy208's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,131
After 3 months I dove on the boat yesterday. Sorry no pics! The prop which I had done with Velox was almost completely barnacle free. There were a couple barnacle 'foot prints' where they had been slung off during use. But this is MUCH better that anything I've tried previous.

I did not use Velox on the hub. The prop guy I used recommended leaving the black epoxy on around the hub. I wish I had removed it all and veloxed the entire prop!
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 10:43 AM   #120
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 598
My exposed metals used to accumulate huge growth. My shafts went from 1 1/2" to almost 3". My props were not much better. And I tried all the local remedies. I even took my props to a plating company and paid to have them copper plated. No, even that didn't work.

NOw at haul time my shafts have spotted growth and not much at all; same with the props.

My solution was to first clean all the metal growth as best I could. Next, sprayed the metals with zinc chromate or whatever is in Rustolium's so called product. The paint bonded to the metals well and acted as bonding agent for bottom paint which I next applied. The bottom paint was nothing special other than it was a hard bottom paint rather than ablative.

This works..........at least it works well for me and it is inexpensive!
__________________

foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012