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Old 09-17-2014, 08:35 AM   #1
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Paragon Sr 400 series water pump issue

Need help please,

couple weeks back I went down to boat and tuned on my water pump. Noticed after a short while my bilge came on and my pump had cycled a coulple times. Went into engine room to check out pump and found a large leak coming from a switch, the switch had no wires connected to it. I now understand that the switch was the 69A pressure switch, or part of it.
Anyway I was about to take off boating and needed a quick fix so I removed the pressure switch and replaces with a 1/4 pipe plug. I was fine over the 3 day weekend , but then I went out last weekend I had NO water pressure.
The pump does not cylce over. When I had removed the pressure switch the prior weekend I also must have let all the pressure out from the accumulation tank , it blew air like crazy. I really have not had a lot of time to trouble shoot except for reading the manual, which states the pump on and off is controlled by the pressure switch. Here is where I am confused.....the switch had no wires to it ?? Been that way as far as I know since owning the boat for 9 years. What you guys think ? hard to believe the motor just went kapoot , but maybe ? The pump is not froze up, the shaft between motor and pump spins fine. My next plan was to test the voltage at pump (12v model).
Thanks
Brad
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Old 09-17-2014, 10:16 AM   #2
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A picture would be nice. The "69A" pressure switch is an "alternate" means of controlling the pump. Typically the pump is controlled by a switch located within the discharge (pressure) side of the pump piping. See if there is not a small wire coming from the pump head to a point in the piping about a foot from the pump. The 69A may have been installed as an available option when the normal switch failed which it may have. If the motor spins fine and the joy coupling is turning the pump shaft then it is probably the switch. They do sometimes pick up debris or rust and perhaps you bumped it enough to clear it for awhile.
When you state that the removal of the 69a switch "blew air like crazy" did it also blow water? The Paragon is a positive displacement pump therefore it will pump air- you could have a problem in the suction line allowing air to enter and no suction or an empty water tank which I would imagine you checked first. There is a small strainer on the inlet side (suction) which may allow you to see if water or air is entering the pump.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:11 PM   #3
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A picture would be nice. The "69A" pressure switch is an "alternate" means of controlling the pump. Typically the pump is controlled by a switch located within the discharge (pressure) side of the pump piping. See if there is not a small wire coming from the pump head to a point in the piping about a foot from the pump. The 69A may have been installed as an available option when the normal switch failed which it may have. If the motor spins fine and the joy coupling is turning the pump shaft then it is probably the switch. They do sometimes pick up debris or rust and perhaps you bumped it enough to clear it for awhile.
When you state that the removal of the 69a switch "blew air like crazy" did it also blow water? The Paragon is a positive displacement pump therefore it will pump air- you could have a problem in the suction line allowing air to enter and no suction or an empty water tank which I would imagine you checked first. There is a small strainer on the inlet side (suction) which may allow you to see if water or air is entering the pump.

I will look closer for a strainer, did not see one my first look.
When removing the pressure switch it was mostly air with water spitting, I had already opened all the faucets to drain off residule water.
The manual said the switch controlled the on/off of the pump. I did not see this at the time I replaced with a pipe plug, more interested in getting underway. I now think what I did effected the pump performace.
I will give it another looksy when I can pull away from work, I would rather be replacing a switch part, rather than the expense of the pump motor for sure. Pretty sure I do not have an inlet strainer, after 9 years I should have noticed that.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:32 PM   #4
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Your pump configuration should look something like the one in this pic. I am certain that the switch you may have removed and plugged was not operating the pump if it had no wires attached to it. Unless there is a wireless controller which I do not think they had 9 years ago. That 69A switch is offered as an option but not to be used with gas powered boats (may spark) so the IPS50 or IPS 51 is the normal switch provided. You may have both with the IPS switch actually wired up. The top right of the picture is the switch, it is a small tube (transducer actually) with a wire attached the strainer is also seen on the picture in the back left.
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:15 PM   #5
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Your pump configuration should look something like the one in this pic. I am certain that the switch you may have removed and plugged was not operating the pump if it had no wires attached to it. Unless there is a wireless controller which I do not think they had 9 years ago. That 69A switch is offered as an option but not to be used with gas powered boats (may spark) so the IPS50 or IPS 51 is the normal switch provided. You may have both with the IPS switch actually wired up. The top right of the picture is the switch, it is a small tube (transducer actually) with a wire attached the strainer is also seen on the picture in the back left.

I agree with you, with no wires attached then how can it be part of the on/off. There is another small electrical box that does have wires running to the pipe you show with wires attached. The pump motor also looks to have a solenoid attached to it where it gets the main power from the breaker panel on/off toggle.
The boat is diesel power so the spark issue is not a concern. I will try and find time to get to the boat this weekend and take pics, mine is not so easy to get a pic from behind. I Can't guarantee though, my priority is get my storage unit empty by month end to avoid another 200 charge. I appreciate you help with the info I provide, I know it is not as easy without seeing it in front of you.
Thanks

Edited to show a little more detail of the switch assembly. The P switch did not have the wired attached . The small black electrical box does.
This site shws the pats that best represent what i see on my pump.
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/groco...ressure-switch

I hope this does not break any rules, if so please advise.
thanks
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:23 AM   #6
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The Paragon Sr pumps are equipped with a dry tank shut off.
It sounds like yours has activated. You need to shut off power to the pump to reset it.

If that doesn't fix it, call Groco. They have very good customer service.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:33 AM   #7
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The picture that you showed is the IPS 51 pressure switch I referenced in the earlier post. That is what controls the pump on/off. In my picture the wires that look like they are attached to a piece of pipe is the dry tank water supply shut off mentioned above. The one you removed that was leaking is the 69A alternate switch that was evidently supplied and not used. Rather than simply plugging it with a pipe plug, buy a cheap water pressure gauge and install it in the same 1/4" tapped pipe.
You will need to determine if the pump motor runs when you turn the breaker on. If the motor runs the coupling and shaft should both be turning if they are after 2 minutes it is not the dry tank shut off. If it does not run it is probably the switch that you sent a picture of. Once again, they have a tendency to malfunction if the are obstructed with debris, rust or calcium build-up.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:43 PM   #8
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The picture that you showed is the IPS 51 pressure switch I referenced in the earlier post. That is what controls the pump on/off. In my picture the wires that look like they are attached to a piece of pipe is the dry tank water supply shut off mentioned above. The one you removed that was leaking is the 69A alternate switch that was evidently supplied and not used. Rather than simply plugging it with a pipe plug, buy a cheap water pressure gauge and install it in the same 1/4" tapped pipe.
You will need to determine if the pump motor runs when you turn the breaker on. If the motor runs the coupling and shaft should both be turning if they are after 2 minutes it is not the dry tank shut off. If it does not run it is probably the switch that you sent a picture of. Once again, they have a tendency to malfunction if the are obstructed with debris, rust or calcium build-up.


After back tracking I removed the IPS 51 and replaced with the pipe plug, the 69A is what I referred to the little black box.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:56 PM   #9
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So, the 69a has wires and the IPS51 did not? Which ever one had the wires going to it was the one controlling the pump. If that is the one you plugged no, it will not work without a functional pressure switch.
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:43 PM   #10
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So, the 69a has wires and the IPS51 did not? Which ever one had the wires going to it was the one controlling the pump. If that is the one you plugged no, it will not work without a functional pressure switch.
I plugged the IPS51, no wires to it. Just hard to believe this could be coincidence .
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Old 11-01-2014, 12:17 PM   #11
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I discontinued communicating my pump problem because I ended up with an injury to my left leg that kept me from doing any analyzing of the pump. After a few weeks I decided to turn it over to my mechanic, he just got it up and running yesterday. It was a mutual agreement between my mechanic and the Groco tech that the issue was the pump circuit board located in the back portion of the pump motor. I bought the circuit board , it was installed and pump is back in operation which is more than I can say for my leg.
Brad
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Old 11-01-2014, 12:24 PM   #12
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Good luck on the recovery.
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:02 AM   #13
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Thought I would post a follow up to this thread. I was preparing to do some engine room maintenance when I noticed a pin hole leak coming from the water pump pressure control valve (69A) . I recalled looking at the cost of this valve at Groco and at Fisheries marine supply in Seattle. Not something I wanted to run out and buy. I also recalled when googling for assistance on this pump I saw where this valve could be replaced with a well pump control switch. Read about that here !!

So to make a longer story shorter I went to Local Box store and bought a 30/50 control switch for 18 bucks and tax. Saved 200 dollars if purchased from Groco.

But I cannot say enough about their tech department, the wiring terminals were different then the original and they walked me through the correct wiring to get my pump back up.
Brad
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