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Old 01-02-2011, 05:21 AM   #21
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RE: Painting topsides

I did not say we are a commercial but a 6 pack charter which does give us privilege through the locks, which anybody can file for

This " privilege" is a courtisy for working boats that are hauling passengers for HIRE .

Not just granted to someone that wants to blow the other marine motorists out of his (or her) way.

This sillyness is how the true work boats LOOSE their ability to function on a Sked.

To CLOWNS!
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Old 01-02-2011, 08:11 AM   #22
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RE: Painting topsides

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:I did not say we are a commercial but a 6 pack charter which does give us privilege through the locks, which anybody can file for. What does being a commercial or charter have to due with painting the hull?
Last time I looked, operating a "6-pack" charter boat was a commercial operation that required a licensed master with a MMD, TWIC and drug testing program in place. All your posts claim that you have a dock queen and rarely leave the dock with anyone other than the grandchildren onboard.

Are you charging them for the trip?

If you can't legally charter and are under charter, or on the way to pick up a charter, then it seems like you are just scamming the lock operators and screwing other people who play by the rules. Judging by your own statements, it seems highly unlikely that you meet the definition of the Corps of Engineers for a commercial vessel: "Commercial vessels include cargo ships; fishing vessels; and licensed commercial passenger vessels operating on a published schedule or regularly operating in the for hire trade."

Wouldn't it be interesting to see the CG board you just after you claimed commercial status to jump the waiting line for the locks? What? No license, no TWIC, no drug test, but aren't you advertising by stating on the radio that your boat is regularly operating in the "for hire" trade?

What does commercial have to do with painting the hull? You tell me, you are the one who used that term in a thread about yacht painting.

Sorry to hijack the thread but sometimes you just have to poke a sharp stick at the poseurs.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:00 AM   #23
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RE: Painting topsides

Since none of it has to do with painting my boat, I'd suggest a new thread debating commercial vs. recreational uses if necessary. Unless you all will come help me paint my boat, then we can discuss it over some cold beers as I offer you moral support as you paint my topsides and I take notes and provide quality control.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:24 AM   #24
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RE: Painting topsides

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Tony,
We painted the sides of our cabin w Brightside. We sanded the area, washed the area and coated it w Interlux Pre-Kote. Pre-Kote comes in dark grey or white. Pre-Kote is a joy to use. Goes on real smooth. The directions are on the can and they have a good web site for all the fine details. Here I am brushing on the Pre-Kote.
Eric, you have shown there are*sufficient pauses between precipitation events in SE Alaska*to apply paint and have it dry.* I had always wondered about that.

*
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:55 AM   #25
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RE: Painting topsides

If you have the time, you should definitely do it yourself. Do the prep right, make sure you have good quality brushes and pick a nice morning when the forcast is good and you have the receipe for success. I painted my transom last spring and it looks like it was sprayed by a pro. As others have said, it's not rocket science. And you'll be proud when you receive compliments on how good your boat looks.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:56 AM   #26
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RE: Painting topsides

Fotoman,
How did you learn how to do it? Just reading on the internet or did you have someone locally that could advise you?
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:51 AM   #27
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Painting topsides

<pre>I had posted this a couple years ago on T & T:







Greetings List

This past June I re-painted the topsides (hull-waterline to gunnels), using a
2-part Sterling/Detco system.

My boat is a 37' cold moulded pilothouse, outer hull finished with a layer of
fiberglass cloth and epoxy.

The original coating was Awlgrip. It was exactly 10 years old and was in need
of refinishing in a few areas - dull spots, small nicks etc.

I had been looking around to have the paint job done by different yards.
Quotes ranged from $12k - $22k for spray jobs. I did find one guy who has
some sort of AGREEMENT with a yard that lets him spray boats in a non approved
scenario, i.e. non-negative pressure paint booth. His quote was around $4k if
I did all the prep.

I have done alot of painting in the commercial construction trade - alot of
spraying with 1 part paints, and alot of rolling with 1 and 2 part paints.
The spraying of these 2-part polyurethanes is tricky, as the atomized
particulates and solvents are extremely toxic, hence the requirement for
constant neg. pressure in the booth as well as the applicator's hood, so you
end up paying extra for the overhead of an approved paint shop.

I was a bit skeptical of some of the claims concerning Roll and Tip
applications. You read/hear testimonies of how a well done roll and tip job
has a deeper luster than a sprayed job. During last years cruise we docked
next to a 32' Sundowner tug that had recently been roll and tipped in the
water no less - and it really looked great. So the reality is that many of
these products are very user friendly, so long as you follow all the
directions to the letter - this includes temp and humidity requirements.
Also, if the wind is blowing you will have dust bumps sticking to your new
paint, so it might make sense to drape the boat with tarps in that case.

I had never used the 'roll and tip' method until this time. I am now a fan.
We had a nice window of good weather and low wind and I painted the boat right
in the open yard. I think it came out great. Had so many walk by's and
compliments, that I could have sold a years worth of product right there in
the yard if I were a distributor.

The prep went much faster than I anticipated it would. Also, I thought I would
need to use the 'high build' primer, but found I was able to sand/fair the old
coating fair quite easily, then used the regular primer - 2 coats.

I used Sterling/Detco 2-part. Rolled and tipped with one helper(the admiral).
It took about 2 hours to do a coat once around.

The topcoat goes on like a dream, I used 3 coats as I had enough paint in the
'kit' to easily make 3 passes. After the first coat the finish was
spectacular, after the 3rd it is unbelievable.

Having used lots of different coatings over the years I can say 2 things about
this product:
1. It is the most expensive paint system I have bought.
2. It is the smoothest, nicest finished product I have applied.

So it is worth it & if I get another 10 years out of this coating, I will be
more than satisfied.

by the way, total price to do approx. 400 square feet of surface including
rollers, brushes and tape was around $600.00. - With the savings I now can
afford to fill up the fuel tanks.




here is a great primer on roll and tipping with the product:

http://www.boatbuildercentral.com/he...g_roll_tip.htm

here is a link to the mfg:

http://www.detcomarine.com/sltopcoat.htm


no affiliation with Sterling - just a very pleased customer


The paint job is now 3 years old.
The gloss is as pretty today as it was on day one, with the exception of one spot where the boat rubs against a large fender in the slip.
And even that spot is hardly noticable if you know where to look.
Of course I managed to nick the paint within 2 weeks of painting while loading the dinghy motor.
At least the touch up was easy - mix tiny amounts of paint and dab it on.

Good luck



Brian Shanafelt
Isobel K.
Seattle, WA
37' Custom Pilothouse
</pre>

-- Edited by bshanafelt on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 09:52:30 AM

-- Edited by bshanafelt on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 09:56:57 AM

-- Edited by bshanafelt on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 10:12:29 AM
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:54 AM   #28
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RE: Painting topsides

Quote:
Woodsong wrote:

Fotoman,
How did you learn how to do it? Just reading on the internet or did you have someone locally that could advise you?

Woodsong,* Trawlers workboat heritage is one thing we have going for us. Of course we all want the best looking and lasting results. If you have the boat professionally prepped and sprayed she will look prefect. If you DYI roll and tip she will look great. She will not be perfect but much easier to maintain, and touch up. Also you won't have to go nuts when the kids plow into your paintjob with the snark.

Are there any boatyards in your area you can visit in the Spring and observe people painting their boats?* I know most people don't do their own work anymore, but if you find a real old time boatyard you can learn alot.* The best boatyards I know of are the ones who cater to the wooden boats. They seem to have the most skilled workers.*

Have Fun!
*
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:49 AM   #29
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RE: Painting topsides

Quote:
Woodsong wrote:

Fotoman,
How did you learn how to do it? Just reading on the internet or did you have someone locally that could advise you?
I did the same thing as you: I asked on this forum! I also found a few videos on Youtube that show you how. And finally I practiced on a scap piece of fiberglass to get the hang of it. It's easier if you can have help to paint: you roll and the other one tips or vice versa. Trust me, it's a lot easier than you might think.



*
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:17 AM   #30
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RE: Painting topsides

All,
A sincere thanks for the thoughts, replies, suggestions, and encouragement! I really appreciate it and it has got me thinking. As an update, I talked with the marina I have been planning on taking the boat to in order to get painted. We had some good discussions. The price they quoted me for just the painting is pretty good I think and potentially worth it as it frees me up time wise, etc. However, it's a 2.5 day trip on the boat down there and they have not physically seen the boat beyond knowing the model from other boats they've worked on and pictures I have sent. After talking with them this week they have agreed they are going to make the drive up (1.5 hours by car- 2.5 days by boat lol!) earlier next week to inspect her and make sure their quote is solid and doable so that I will not have any increased costs, etc. if we make the trip down. My biggest concern has been me taking the time to cruise her down there (which honestly would be a really fun trip in and of itself) only to have them say sorry, it will be 2x's our bid due to actual conditions of the boat. So- they are going to come look at her. If they come back with the bid they gave me and will sign off that it is a not to exceed price then I may just say heck with it and let them do it as it frees me up and gets it done now instead of having to wait until spring for me to do it in good weather. If they don't come in darn close to the bid amount thus far then it appears that I may be getting a crash course on painting a boat!
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:45 AM   #31
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RE: Painting topsides

Folks wanting to learn to roll & tip, a very easy skill should try the transom first.

It can easily be re-sanded should the first attempt not be quite good enough.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:11 PM   #32
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RE: Painting topsides

Woodsong

There is a great topside painting article in the Nov/Dec issue of Good Old Boat. Very detailed and definitely worth reading.

Good luck
Roger
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:35 PM   #33
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Painting topsides

Ok. Let me ask you experienced painters something. How many man hours do you think it should take to fully paint the topsides of a 36 monk? Assume 98% of sanding has been completed already. Only prep work is to wash it down, prime a few additional spots (not much), tape off a few deck fittings (just a couple, rest can be cut in), and then paint everything with 2 part epoxy from inside cap rail, all of the cabin, all flybridge fiberglass, etc. Additionally, the 2-3 small sections of non-skid directly under the flybridge helm need to be painted with non-skid to match the rest of the boat.
How many many hours do you reckon it would be and how much, if you hired a yard to do it, do you think it should cost? Thus far I've strategically hidden the ugly pictures of our boat but here she is, close up, and ugly. You can see the flybridge was primed and sanded a while ago and the primer has yellowed. Seam around intersection of the flybridge body and the deck has all trim removed. All non-fixed exterior teak and fittings removed (venturi shield, hand holds, etc.).

I just inked a business deal that results in me wanting my boat to look good asap and not drag it on until warm weather for me to paint it. I am now the exclusive yacht broker for the marina our boat is at so I will be using the boat as a platform to meet clients, buyers, etc. etc. and I can't have the boat looking like the ugly duckling and want her painted right away. I just received a hard bid from the yard that would do the work after they personally inspected her yesterday. It seems like an ok deal to me but am curious how many man hours your topsides painting took. They are figuring basically 25-30 man hours to do wash, tape, prime the few spots that still need it (we used a dark filler on some dings that will need primed), sand a couple of spots, and then roll and time. As well, they are going to refinish the steps from trunk deck to flybridge, the 2 steps on the transom to the swim ladder, and 2 sections of the cabin door frames that the PO had ADD on and did not do.

You can see in the pics how bad she needs painting. *Cabin, etc. doesn't look so bad but the PO really forced the issue once he primed the flybridge and let it all turn splotchy and yellow which looks just hideous to me. *Same with the bridge helm area- he patched some holes, etc. and it looks bad. *All the teak trim up there is removed so that further makes it look bad. *The storage doors are all now reinstalled after being fully refinished and they look great. *But- you can see why I am so anxious to get her painted. *She should look pretty sharp when done or at least she better look good!


Once she is painted I think we'll be proud to see her on the dock- right now she looks like the red headed step child that did not get invited to the prom! * *Thankfully her interior shows well and is in good shape and beautiful teak- just have to get her topsides looking really nice.


So- how many man hours to finish the job?
How much $$ would you guess?


-- Edited by Woodsong on Saturday 22nd of January 2011 05:37:44 PM
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:31 AM   #34
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Painting topsides

Woodsong, as it happens, I recently went through a similar exercise, so I can give you a rough idea of relative costs. When the painter misunderstood me, and thought I wanted 2 pack perfection over whole boat, the quote was of the order of $A19,000, but when it was clarified I only wanted them to do the hull from boot-top to gunwhale, it came down to $7,400. Allowing for my boat not beng an aft cabin, and a sedan at that, and only 34 instead of 36 feet, never-the-less the ratio should be fairly close - ie nearly 3 times as much, all professionally done.* Ie topsides was ~ twice hull alone - much more fiddley with all the masking, fittings etc needed for spraying.
Looking at your pics, my advice would be to remove the flybridge wheel, get masking and prep touching up, and then get to it. I don't think it will be that hard once you get stuck into it. Aim to do one section at a time, and don't take on too much each time. My only question would be whether you really need to do the topsides in 2 pack - in the end I settled on Toplac, which is available here now in a new formulation, and I'm hoping it will be superior to Brightside, but only time will tell, but it has come up really well, and I did it all by myself over 2 weekends. Perfection 2 pack would not be much more difficult, just might require some thinning and extra care, and again in defined sections that are not too onerous. For larger areas roll and tip with brush is good, but it is more of a fiddle and you waste more, and it is more expensive, tho none of the paints are cheap. I did it all with a brush in the end. Yes, the back ended up a bit sore for a few days.

-- Edited by Peter B on Sunday 23rd of January 2011 07:34:58 AM
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:10 AM   #35
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RE: Painting topsides

A painter and I did whole hull in about 4 hours, I paid him 500 bucks.* I did the rolling as that is applying the paint and he did the tipping as that is where the skill is.* You can actually use a good paint brush as the rolling is to apply the paint to large areas. The brush is what blends covers evenly.* The final top coat is just enough to cover the dull primer and make shiny and pretty.* I use Brightside which ahs held up to 7 years and its easy to match and repair.* The rest of the boat I did at the slip myself.* Each year I do a side or area so its not an expensive/long job.


*
If your boat is primed and prepped I would guess 40 hours.* You might just want to do the hull as the rest can be done at the slip.* ****
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:13 PM   #36
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RE: Painting topsides

Got a question about sanding if no fairing is necessary and no discolorations or cracks are present. How much sanding is needed before wiping with solvent? And what grit size.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:29 PM   #37
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RE: Painting topsides

Quote:
Moondance wrote:

Got a question about sanding if no fairing is necessary and no discolorations or cracks are present. How much sanding is needed before wiping with solvent? And what grit size.
For me, 120 or 150 grit and just enough to take the shine/gloss off. At least that was with wood. With fibreglass I think that you are supposed to use a deglosser/dewaxer first? Someone will chime in on that point.

*
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:24 PM   #38
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RE: Painting topsides

you also need to be sure to get rid of any silicone that has ever been on the FG. The product recommended to me for that purpose is available at auto supply stores, Lordco here in Vancouver is where I bought it. called "Tumbler".

the finer the grit paper, the better the final finish. I recently did my inner bulwarks at the bow with 2000 grit, so as to present a good, shinable surface. using wet/dry paper helps too, as you can see how much of the oxidation is coming off without sanding through the surface layers.
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:00 PM   #39
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RE: Painting topsides

Thanks all SOO much for all the insight in advice. All things considered, we have opted to have the service yard that originally bid to do the work proceed with painting. They did it previously just off pictures but took the time this past week to drive up to inspect it and make sure it was a solid bid. They initially came back with a price a good bit higher but in talking to them at length, we've settled on a price that is lower than their initial bid but also includes more work. As it stands now, they are going to paint all of the topsides from the toe rail in, paint the transom from swim platform up, paint the few unfinished sections of non-skid that need to be done to match rest of the boat, as well as sand/refinish/varnish the few pieces of exterior teak that are not in excellent shape which includes the steps from trunk deck to the flybridge, the 2 built in steps attached to the transom from decks to swim platform, a well as a few sections of the cabin door frames (faces were refinished but PO never did the sides of the frames). We've got a verbal on all that at a price that is frankly too attractive to pass up. So- right now we're scheduled to bring her down there next weekend to drop her off. To be honest, you all had really convinced me to paint her myself and I was starting to really look forward to doing it. As well, in light of the new business deal I just inked with the marina late last week, I don't want to have to wait until spring and warm weather to get her looking her best as I am new there and people don't know me as well yet and first impressions are important. They'd never imagine our past boats have been in the $250k range- she looks more like I could only afford an old pontoon.
So anyway- I am excited to be getting her painted asap. If I can ever figure out how to set up a wifi helm cam that would stream video of the short 125 mile run down the river I'd love to invite you all along for the trip so stay tuned!

But, don't feel your advice was in vain- I am sure I will be putting it to use for touch ups, etc.

Stay tuned!

P.S. Also, I forgot- I actually DO have experience painting a boat! 2-3 summers ago I painted the hull on our "premier" sailing yacht that we affectionately named "Little Sunshine." I am sure you have heard of her both near and far (she is VERY active in the charter fleet) and will recognize her just as quickly.
The before:


And After:
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:28 PM   #40
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RE: Painting topsides

Be still my heart!!! *Goodness!!! *The yard just emailed me a few pics of the boat as I've not been able to get over there to inspect her directly yet. *Do you remember when you were a teenager and at the big school dance and the prettiest girl in the entire school was there and you wanted to ask her to dance but your palms were sweaty and you were nervous and in love? *I JUST GOT THAT FEELING!!!!!! **
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