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12-01-2013, 07:37 PM
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#1
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Guru
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
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Copper plated props?
Has anyone tried copper plating a bronze or other metal prop? I'm thinking this might be a long lasting anti-fouling treatment, but don't know about the corrosion potential. But then if we're painting props with a copper based anti-fouling coating...
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12-04-2013, 07:13 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Diberville Mississippi
Vessel Name: KnotDoneYet
Vessel Model: 1983 42' Present Sundeck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,450
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Tap Tap Tap. Hello???
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Steve Point Cadet/ Biloxi, Mississippi USA
*Present 42 twin 135 Lehmans
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12-04-2013, 08:20 AM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Cameron, La
Vessel Name: Baobab
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4788
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,660
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A google search brings up a mixed bag of results. Some have done it and claim 5 years and no growth and some saw no noticeable improvement, The Aussies also have a patent pending on a particular application.
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12-04-2013, 02:19 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Hotel, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,323
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I suppose hanging a copper fitting off your dock on a string would give you a good idea in 6 months to a year. I may try that at my marina and see what happens. Cool thought Keith
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Craig
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
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12-04-2013, 10:51 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,307
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It's an interesting idea but I don't think it would be much of an improvement over a bare bronze prop. After all, bronze is mostly copper anyway.
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12-05-2013, 12:21 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: PNW
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,860
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Seems odd that a bronze propeller which is mostly copper and some small amount of another metal (probably tin) would not protect as well as pure copper. But maybe the bronze alloy stops the chemical reaction of copper and seawater which form the protective coating?
The 18th century practice of sheathing wood hulled ships with copper plate was a little different, as the copper plate was meant to stop ship worms, Teredo's and marine growth from boring into the wood hulls.
It would be a good to know fact. Do we have any metallurgist on the forum?
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Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
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12-05-2013, 12:57 AM
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#7
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Guru
City: Port Townsend
Vessel Name: The Promise
Vessel Model: Roughwater 35
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,569
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No metallurgist, but everything you ever wanted to know about to know about Bronze:
Bronze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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12-05-2013, 01:10 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: Brisbane
Vessel Model: 49ft 11inch catamaran-trawler
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 204
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What about copper epoxy antifoul?
Sand and coat the prop in pure epoxy, a couple of coats and then when it has kicked, go over the top with the copper epoxy.
That way the first few coats of pure epoxy works as a barrier coat to the dissimilar metals.
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12-05-2013, 06:23 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
Has anyone tried copper plating a bronze or other metal prop? I'm thinking this might be a long lasting anti-fouling treatment, but don't know about the corrosion potential. But then if we're painting props with a copper based anti-fouling coating...
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Simply said, the way copper electro winning/plating works requires a pure metal such as Fe, Cu Pb or Pt as the starter sheet. Pure metal props have their own problems which is why alloys of copper are used. A better question is why not use an all copper prop? Answer, in larger sizes the prop would be so thick it would be ineffective. Same as Al props are limited to something less than 17"
Copper won't plate to the alloys. Having worked in the zinc and copper plating (refining) business I can only say if copper refining were easily done using a bronze or nickel alloy anode it would be pretty revolutionary.
While a few prop barnacles may seem a problem to some, in the big picture they are easily dealt with using paint, slick stuff or elbow grease.
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12-05-2013, 01:23 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: PNW
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,860
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Last haul out they painted my running gear with Pettit Zinc Coat, which comes in a bomb can. According to my diver it worked great for two seasons on the props and four years on the shafts here in the PNW.
It was $26 a can and for twin engines took two cans to complete the recommended 2 -3 coats. It's $35 a can now and I don't know if I will use it again. The diver checks my gear twice a year and re-zincs the boat once a year and cleans props and shafts anyway. So barnacles on the gear is not a big deal here.
__________________
Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
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12-05-2013, 04:40 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
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I wonder if it would be worth trying to epoxy on a copper foil if plating is out....
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12-05-2013, 05:44 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
City: Hampton Bays, N.Y.
Vessel Name: Grand Yankee
Vessel Model: 1981 49' Grand Banks Classic
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 328
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All paint products must list ingredients and make available to consumers. When I check the Mil Spec zinc paint from Pettit the zinc paint at Lowes was the same paint at $ 8.29 for same size can. Many yards on East coast are using on all underwater hardware. Time will tell..
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12-05-2013, 05:46 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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I don't think using copper coatings on bronze props is a good idea because of what may take place w the copper and bronze together. I'm quite sure there will be corrosion or some other undesirable result.
Interlux however outlines a process for painting bronze props w anti-fouling paint.
1. Sand and clean
2. One coat of surface primer - Vin-Lux primewash.
3. Three to four coats of primer. Interprotect 2000E
4. Three coats of antifouling - Tri-Lux 33
The Tri-Lux 33 is the very common paint used for aluminum props. I don't know if it's copper or tin based AF but one look at the can should reveal. I'm almost positive Tri-Lux 33 is what I put on the bottom of my aluminum skiff.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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12-05-2013, 05:49 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
City: Brisbane
Vessel Model: 49ft 11inch catamaran-trawler
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats
I don't think using copper coatings on bronze props is a good idea because of what may take place w the copper and bronze together. I'm quite sure there will be corrosion or some other undesirable result.
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Post 8
Quote:
Sand and coat the prop in pure epoxy, a couple of coats and then when it has kicked, go over the top with the copper epoxy.
That way the first few coats of pure epoxy works as a barrier coat to the dissimilar metals.
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12-05-2013, 06:47 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parmenter
What about copper epoxy antifoul?
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A waste of paint. Won't stay on long enough to make it worthwhile.
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Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
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12-05-2013, 06:51 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parmenter
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With just a scan of the first pages...didn't see anything about foil...just copper mixed in with epoxy....
Not sure copper would have a bad reaction with a bronze prop...many just put copper based antifouling paint directly onto the prop with no barrier coat with no ill effects.
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12-05-2013, 08:36 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,940
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Bronze propellers are an extremly rare animal. I very much doubt if any of us have them. Propeller bronze is Mangasnese Bronze which is actually a member of the brass family with a zinc content of about 40%. Manganese bronze is used because it is cheaper and true bronze is too hard (and difficult) to tune.
Professional Boat Builder has a very good article on brasses an bronzes The article has a very good photo of electrolytic corrosion and its effect on de-zincifying "bronze" propellers.
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12-05-2013, 10:32 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: PNW
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,860
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Mine are 3 bladed, Michigan Wheel - Nibral
Nibral is an alloy of nickel, bronze, and aluminum
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Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
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12-06-2013, 05:22 AM
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#20
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
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OK...so my "bronze" prop is manganese bronze (lot's of zinc in it)....the zinc is what galvanic action attacks first...so again...I wonder what the issue would be of trying to epoxy copper foil to a propeller blade?
Just like copper painting a prop only this would probably have more insulation with a thin coat of epoxy between them. The copper should wear better and longer than paint.
Sheathing hulls in copper is an "old time" method for wood hulls...so I wonder how a relatively slow turning trawler prop would handle it?
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