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Old 01-02-2019, 06:12 PM   #1
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Osmosis or What?

Looking at this 2005 boat. Pic 26 is intended to show Propspeed application but shows some hull as well. I think I see at least one blister on the chines. The bottom doesn`t look great either, either suggesting repairs, or ground areas just left, or general roughness. What do others see?

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Old 01-02-2019, 06:21 PM   #2
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It doesn’t look too bad to me. Maybe just a buildup of bottom paint. The prop nuts are on in the wrong order.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:31 PM   #3
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One blister that seems more like an isolated incident to me. Whats up with what looks like paint wear on the shaft ahead of the cutlass bearing? I hope the motor mounts don't allow that much forward thrust runout.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:01 PM   #4
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Thanks. I`m trying to decide whether to inspect. Haulout hull inspection comes well down the track. Built by Jiang Hua,the brand has hull issue history. It`s an updated Harvey Halvorsen/Island Gypsy 40 design. Lots to like, but that hull looks messy.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:47 AM   #5
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One blister that seems more like an isolated incident to me. Whats up with what looks like paint wear on the shaft ahead of the cutlass bearing? I hope the motor mounts don't allow that much forward thrust runout.
They are quiet boats with engines running, mounts may be on the soft side.
What about the shallow crater above the port shaft? Failed a/f due to build up,or a ground blister painted over. If the a/f is losing adhesion,a/f strip is coming due, with an epoxy or vinylester barrier coating after.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:50 AM   #6
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It's real hard to tell from the pictures, but I see the spots you are talking about, and it does look like a big blister. But it might just be a paint blister, not a structural blister.


The other yellow flag I see is that the pictures are not all the same vintage, and probably very different vintage. Most of the differences are in the flybridge pictures where the upholstery changes from beige to blue, and the console changed from FRP to a wood overlay. So in at least some of the pictures you are seeing the boat when it was much newer, or perhaps even a sister ship or stock photos of the model.


Have you seen the boat in person, or is that what you are trying to decide to do?


Re blisters, I have seen surveyors use a moisture meter on hulls, but I don't know if it would show blisters, or if it only shows water logged areas. But I'm wondering if you could use one from the inside of the boat to get a sense of the hull condition by measure from inside bilges, etc. to get a sense of hull condition before spending $$ on a haul out.


To me one of the challenges with a boat in this value range is that you have very little room for repairs before you find yourself with a lot more money in the boat than it's worth. So it needs to be pretty perfect, or the price needs to change quite a bit. For example, I would image that stripping the bottom paint, doing some blister repair, barrier coat, and repaint could easily cost $50k-$100k. But I have never done it, so might be way off. It just seems like it would be really easy to end up with 25% to 50% more into the boat right from the start.
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:08 PM   #7
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It's real hard to tell from the pictures, but I see the spots you are talking about, and it does look like a big blister. But it might just be a paint blister, not a structural blister.


The other yellow flag I see is that the pictures are not all the same vintage, and probably very different vintage. Most of the differences are in the flybridge pictures where the upholstery changes from beige to blue, and the console changed from FRP to a wood overlay. So in at least some of the pictures you are seeing the boat when it was much newer, or perhaps even a sister ship or stock photos of the model.


Have you seen the boat in person, or is that what you are trying to decide to do?


Re blisters, I have seen surveyors use a moisture meter on hulls, but I don't know if it would show blisters, or if it only shows water logged areas. But I'm wondering if you could use one from the inside of the boat to get a sense of the hull condition by measure from inside bilges, etc. to get a sense of hull condition before spending $$ on a haul out.


To me one of the challenges with a boat in this value range is that you have very little room for repairs before you find yourself with a lot more money in the boat than it's worth. So it needs to be pretty perfect, or the price needs to change quite a bit. For example, I would image that stripping the bottom paint, doing some blister repair, barrier coat, and repaint could easily cost $50k-$100k. But I have never done it, so might be way off. It just seems like it would be really easy to end up with 25% to 50% more into the boat right from the start.
Thanks. I have seen the boat up close,even been onboard,but not had an actual inspection. It has been for sale 15 months, some pics are even from the sale 3 years ago, before a name change. Yes, there are 2 versions of the FB instrumentation, and upholstery. I spoke to the broker yesterday about the hull, he says no osmosis present 3 years ago when he sold it to his accountant, sounded unhappy I used the pic to spot hull issues instead of admiring the Propspeed.
At best I suspect it needs the hull stripped and barrier coated for fresh antifoul. Probably worth about 300K or a touch more in good order.
I`ll give it some thought,thanks for the input. Been through osmosis with my current boat, not keen to go back there.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:01 PM   #8
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Bruce
Your question and points made regarding hull appear valid. Also the raw water exhaust hose appears connected on the uphill side of the elbow as opposed to the preferred downhill side.

In general the pictures show a pretty well cared for boat. Perfect Cummins 210 hp engine choice IMHO. Good luck as you pursue the details.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:17 PM   #9
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We inspected the boat today. Good accommodation, some wrinkles, a nice big volume boat. No compelling "buy me now" feeling,concern remains what`s lurking under the water per running gear teaser pic, and haulout is a way down the track.
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:51 AM   #10
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Nice boat Bruce, a good step up from your last, been interested in these myself. Some of the early models had windlass problems, underpowered.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:52 AM   #11
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More blisters on keel

I see many more blisters on the side of the keel. The photos actually zoom pretty well in my browser (chrome). If the bottom does have a lot of blisters study the hull above the waterline closely too. If it is blistered badly under cushions and other areas where moisture traps against it that does not bode well for the long term reliability of the gelcoat in general for its age. Otherwise, looks very nice...

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Looking at this 2005 boat. Pic 26 is intended to show Propspeed application but shows some hull as well. I think I see at least one blister on the chines. The bottom doesn`t look great either, either suggesting repairs, or ground areas just left, or general roughness. What do others see?

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Old 01-05-2019, 07:52 PM   #12
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I see many more blisters on the side of the keel. The photos actually zoom pretty well in my browser (chrome). If the bottom does have a lot of blisters study the hull above the waterline closely too. If it is blistered badly under cushions and other areas where moisture traps against it that does not bode well for the long term reliability of the gelcoat in general for its age. Otherwise, looks very nice...
Thanks for that, my browser is not as good at zooming in.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:01 PM   #13
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Nice boat Bruce, a good step up from your last, been interested in these myself. Some of the early models had windlass problems,underpowered.
It has a Muir Cougar,and 5/16 or 8mm chain. I`ve got a Cheetah and 8mm on my IG 36. With a replacement 1200w motor!

Integrity somehow acquired the Harvey Halvorsen IG hull design. This one makes the swimstep part of the hull. Rare boats,this is the second one I`ve seen,similar concept to the Clipper 40 uncommon with twins.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:40 PM   #14
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Osmosis or not

Hi Bruce

I bought a boat that I knew had osmosis after a lot of research. Its important to note that (in the UK) osmosis does not affect insurance for the boat as no boat has ever sunk because of osmosis. That said I did get the price reduced significantly so I could take it to a specialist boat yard (Hayling Yacht Company) for treatment. Once done I copper coated the hull that works brilliantly. It was a much smaller boat but the specialist company charged about half what a non specialist years would charge.


I am told the only way to be sure the boat has osmosis is to lift her and pop the bubbles, then analyse the fluid that's in them. If its real bad you'll smell the grp "solvents"

Splash the cash and get it surveyed. I've been sailing for more than 40 years and though I knew a lot about boats. I didn't and missed the fire risk, the explosion risk, the inability to use the boat in the rain etc etc. Its a good bargaining tool to get the price down, especially if they have had it on sale for 15 months.

She does look nice and well cared for, yes there will be things to do, but that's the same with all boats - even brand new ones.

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Old 01-12-2019, 10:21 PM   #15
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Appreciate the thoughts, thanks Gilbert. Whatever the cause,I feel sure it`s a mess down there. I know a boat of that brand was seen out of water at the marina where this one one was kept(it moved with the listing broker to the current marina) and the bottom was very poor. For now, that one is on hold.
I`m just back from flying nearly 3000 km to FNQ,(Far North Queensland) and back, to see another 40ft boat. This one, different make)had sporadic blister outbreaks above the waterline but reportedly, by insurance survey, none below. Not 100% sure they are even osmosis but the owner says they are, he`s promoting the boat for sale, so I suppose they must be. It needs to be a good boat to take on delivering it 3000km,so that one is not biting my hand off either.
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