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Old 12-30-2015, 10:04 PM   #301
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Congratulations Ted, a resounding success
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:22 PM   #302
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Holy $#@&*%$! Looking great there, Ted! Must be a great feeling to have that much success on such a huge job. You found a great team member in Sean!
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:01 PM   #303
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Welp...I don't know quite what to say except that if your goal was to splash this baby this year, you made it be the skin of your teeth. I'll bet you checked the bilges a few times before heading home! Can hardly wait to hear the feedback on the waterways south. Still in the mid 80's here.....come on down!
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:46 PM   #304
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Great result. Congratulations!
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:00 AM   #305
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Now don't ya just wish is was August? Then after she was splashed, Cocktail Time!
Great job you guys! I forgot Shawn dosent drink. Oh well, I'll have one for him.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:09 AM   #306
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Well done, must be a great feeling and a wonderful achievement....
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:22 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Jon View Post
I know that has to be an awesome feeling to have it in the water after all this time!
Thanks! Awesome but very humbling, it was the moment of truth. Wondering what things weren't going to work as designed.

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Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Congratulations Ted, a resounding success
Thanks! Lots of relief when the engine started within 1 second of pressing the starter and water came out the exhaust.

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Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
Holy $#@&*%$! Looking great there, Ted! Must be a great feeling to have that much success on such a huge job. You found a great team member in Sean!
Thanks! Yes the elation came maybe 20 minutes later after starting the engine. Very nervous all the way through the launch and systems checks. Are all these things going to work as designed? Sean is absolutely the best! Dedicated craftsman like him are very rare these days. Certainly a huge project for him.

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Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
Welp...I don't know quite what to say except that if your goal was to splash this baby this year, you made it be the skin of your teeth. I'll bet you checked the bilges a few times before heading home! Can hardly wait to hear the feedback on the waterways south. Still in the mid 80's here.....come on down!
To be truthful, I did check the bilges and shaft seal before moving the boat out of the slings. Heading to Crisfield on Friday (25 miles), where the boat will be for a week or so while I set the boat up for heading South, get a new prop, and shock the fresh water system with some bleach.

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Great result. Congratulations!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Chief View Post
Now don't ya just wish is was August? Then after she was splashed, Cocktail Time!
Great job you guys! I forgot Shawn dosent drink. Oh well, I'll have one for him.
Might have one this evening. Have to be up early tomorrow to catch the high tide.

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Originally Posted by Haylands View Post
Well done, must be a great feeling and a wonderful achievement....
Thanks! Still feel a little numb. A year and a half is a long time to spend on a project like this.


Heading down to the boat to get her ready for tomorrows first trip South Crisfield, MD. Lots to do.

Ted
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Old 12-31-2015, 09:26 AM   #308
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Missed a spot,......... just kidding, awesome, congratulations!
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:50 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Marlinmike View Post
Missed a spot,......... just kidding, awesome, congratulations!
No, that's bird poop. Thanks!

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Old 01-01-2016, 05:53 AM   #310
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Heading out for the maiden voyage / sea trial or whatever it's called after a refit. High tides at 7; cast the lines shortly there after.

Ted
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:10 AM   #311
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Eagerly standing by for your update.....!


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Old 01-01-2016, 05:06 PM   #312
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A wonderful day on Chesapeake Bay!

Took the boat from Chance, MD to Crisfield, MD. Left around 7:45 this morning for the 20 mile run to Crisfield. Boat ran well with a couple of hiccups. Moving away from the bulkhead, the bow thruster quit. Fuse blew. Not sure if I picked something (like a dock line) up off the bottom or the fuse was sized wrong (during refit I switched from 12 to 24 volt). Will have to trouble shoot it tomorrow. So no thruster for docking.

Happy to report the John Deere has more than enough power. With a 28" prop she picks up speed quickly. I haven't changed props yet, so this one has way too much pitch. The numbers with this prop are as follows:

700 to 800 rpm yields about 5 knots
1,000 rpm is 6 knots
1,200 rpm is 7 knots
1,450 rpm is about 8 knots
1,660 rpm (WOT) is about 8.6 knots (Hull Speed)

I installed a temp switch in the coolant loop to control the cabin heaters. It was supposed to energize the blowers at 170 degrees. No heat at 180 degrees. Something else to trouble shoot tomorrow. Jumped the switch and had cabin heat. Will do a separate thread on the heat numbers relative to fuel burn. Simply, I was very comfy in the pilot house, but cabin heat is definitely tied to fuel burn.

Have to make some adjustments to the electronics. Everything worked well, but had some alarms as a result of improper settings with depth alarms etc.

Trip was uneventful with the possible exception of a rusty captain. Haven't run this boat in 18 months and docking is decidedly different than the dive boat. It all went well, just wasn't as smooth as I should be. Nothing some practice and a functioning bow thruster won't fix.

So she is now berthed on the floating dock at Sommers Cove marina till I head South.

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So now for the important stuff: GPH, MPG

So here is part of what I wrote on page 1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
The case for repowering:

To cruise the boat at 7 knots the engine runs at 1,200 rpm. 6 knots is 1,000 rpm. Less than 6 knots your taking in and out of gear. The engine doesn't run efficiently at 7 knots, less than 2 mpg. Spent a lot of time running HP requirements on software programs such as you find on boatdiesel.com. You can come up with all sorts of numbers depending on how you classify the hull shape etc. (garbage in, garbage out). The realistic range for HP needed for 7 knots is somewhere between 25 and 45 HP with 35 being a pretty realistic number. So, assuming 35 HP, the 450 HP Cummins is running at 8% of it's capacity and generating roughly 10 HP for every gallon it's burning. Simply, this engine is designed to run at 1,600+ rpm and generate hundreds of HP.

Need to find an engine around 100 HP with the same WOT rpm that I can bolt my ZF 280.1 transmission to. Then I only need to change to a flatter pitch prop. Logical choice was the John Deere 4045TFM75 M1. The engine is 107 HP at 2,400 rpm M1 rating (continuous duty). The Cummins is 450 HP at 2,500 rpm. My ZF 280.1 gear bolted right up, albeit substantial over kill.

So here are the numbers: Sold the Cummins sight unseen to a waterman of the marina for $15K before I brought the boat to Maryland. Bought the new engine for $17.8K. Add another +/- $4.2K in materials (custom stainless exhaust riser, lift muffler, exhaust pipe, engine mounts, transmission cooler, transmission service, and a bunch of misc. Add +/- $3K for Sean labor (and 100+ hours of my labor). That brings me to around $10K. Still need to buy a new prop, but will run the old one to generate some numbers to work from. Expect the boat to cruise at 1,600 to 1,800 rpm at 7 knots. Peak torque (full efficiency) is reached at 1,400 rpm. WOT (2,400 rpm) should be somewhere near 8.5 knots.

So you probably want to know what I think I will get for fuel consumption. The closest production boat with the same motor was the Kadey Krogen 39 (discontinued). The KK39 is a little shorter LWL (about 4'). The listed displacements and drafts are almost exactly the same. Hull shapes are different as the KK39 is full displacement. So it's roughly comparible. The question is, do you believe Kadey Krogen's advertised numbers? KK claims the 39 burns 1.3 GPH at 7 knots with the JD 4045T. That's a little over 5 MPG. I'm hoping to do at least 3 MPG which is 2.3 GPH. I will be ecstatic if I hit 4 MPG / 1.75 GPH.

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Ted
So I now have some numbers for the Deere. Here are the qualifiers:

The motor has 4 hours on it and is running on break in oil and 2 year old fuel.
The propeller is the wrong pitch preventing the engine from reaching 2,400 rpm.
For 6 and 7 knots the engine isn't in the peak torque range (less efficient).

The Numbers so far:

6 knots, 1,000 rpm, 1.2 GPH, 5 MPG (nautical miles per gallon)
7 knots, 1,200 rpm, 2.0 GPH, 3.5 MPG
8 knots, 1,450 rpm, 3.2 GPH, 2.5 MPG
8.6 Knots 1,660 rpm, 5.5 GPH, 1.6 MPG

Needless to say, I'm ecstatic with these initial numbers. Hoping the 7 knots with the new propeller, 1,600 to 1,800 rpm, and operating in the peak torque range of the engine will improve a little more. But I can happily live with these numbers. Don't think I will reach 9 knots as I'm already generating 110 to 120 HP at 8.6 knots.

The consumption numbers were generated by the engine electronics which control the injection process. They are purported to be accurate and display to a tenth of a gallon.

Will be doing some more day trips to finish breaking in the motor before heading South. So far, so good!

Ted
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:25 PM   #313
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That's economical then, and a pretty short snagging list for the amount of work you have done....

It'll never be finished though
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:04 PM   #314
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Congratulations Ted!! With all rewiring and refitting you and Sean have done, that is an incredibly short squawk list.

I know this has probably been said before, but it’s worth saying again, thank you for keeping us abreast on your progress and reasoning for the upgrades you did. For me, this thread was like a ‘how-to’ manual. In about three months, I will be doing a re-power, updating systems, installing a lot of stuff and trying to make sense of the plumbing and wiring currently down there. This thread, along with the ‘Show us your ER’ and ‘Old Fat Men and Engine Rooms’ have been a great inspiration for me to do the ER right.

Please keep updates coming. When this thread end, if it ever ends, I guess I will have to take up reading ‘War and Peace’ or ‘Moby Dick’.

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Old 01-01-2016, 10:44 PM   #315
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Man I really like the profile of your boat. To coin another, she's real "shippy" looking. I showed a pic to my ocean alexander, and it shuddered. Dont think I wanna know why either.

Do you think the mpg's will drop a tad as the rpms go up with the new prop?
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:20 AM   #316
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Ted

After I repowered my boat with more hp in otherwise similar engines, my rpm at 8 knots dropped slightly, from 2750 to 2500 or so. No change to the props. On urging by my Volvo Mechanic "your engines will run more efficiently and last a lot longer", I repropped by Adding 4" of pitch. This brought my cruising rpm down some more. I now cruise at around 2000 rpm and WOT only gets me a little more, maybe 2300. I have had these conditions now for about 12 years, with no ill effects. In fact, my fuel consumption dropped significantly, paying for the cost of the repower and repropping within the first 5 years. My Volvo TAMD41s would run at 3300 WOT if propped for it, but there is no need to get them that excited.

Just sayin, you don't need to rush those props in to change their pitch.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:41 AM   #317
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That's economical then, and a pretty short snagging list for the amount of work you have done....

It'll never be finished though
Yes, really very happy. I was expecting more things that would need adjusting. Have a few more minor things, but the engine was my number one concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by remwines View Post
Congratulations Ted!! With all rewiring and refitting you and Sean have done, that is an incredibly short squawk list.

I know this has probably been said before, but it’s worth saying again, thank you for keeping us abreast on your progress and reasoning for the upgrades you did. For me, this thread was like a ‘how-to’ manual. In about three months, I will be doing a re-power, updating systems, installing a lot of stuff and trying to make sense of the plumbing and wiring currently down there. This thread, along with the ‘Show us your ER’ and ‘Old Fat Men and Engine Rooms’ have been a great inspiration for me to do the ER right.

Please keep updates coming. When this thread end, if it ever ends, I guess I will have to take up reading ‘War and Peace’ or ‘Moby Dick’.

Bob
Appreciate your kind words! It's great to get feedback and input from everyone; it makes you think things in different directions. Lots of satisfaction in these kinds of projects. When you're done, you will know your boat on a whole new level. After a year and a half, I know where everything is, how it works, where the wiring and plumbing go, and know everything is up to date.

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Originally Posted by what_barnacles View Post
Man I really like the profile of your boat. To coin another, she's real "shippy" looking. I showed a pic to my ocean alexander, and it shuddered. Dont think I wanna know why either.

Do you think the mpg's will drop a tad as the rpms go up with the new prop?
Thank you! I still turn and admire her whenever I leave. If you're going to invest the time and money, it better bring a smile to your face walking down the dock.

My target speed is 7 knots. Would like that to be between 1,600 and 1,800 rpm. Best efficiency is usually at peak torque. For this engine there are 3 HP settings (changed by the control module software).

135 HP @ 2,600 rpm peak torque 1,800 rpm
121 HP @ 2,500 rpm peak torque 1,700 rpm
107 HP @ 2,400 rpm peak torque 1,600 rpm

Would like to set the motor at 107 HP and run 1,600 rpm for 7 knots. Think the MPG will improve a little based on running at peak torque, after break in is complete, and with fresh fuel. But I've been wrong before.

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Ted

After I repowered my boat with more hp in otherwise similar engines, my rpm at 8 knots dropped slightly, from 2750 to 2500 or so. No change to the props. On urging by my Volvo Mechanic "your engines will run more efficiently and last a lot longer", I repropped by Adding 4" of pitch. This brought my cruising rpm down some more. I now cruise at around 2000 rpm and WOT only gets me a little more, maybe 2300. I have had these conditions now for about 12 years, with no ill effects. In fact, my fuel consumption dropped significantly, paying for the cost of the repower and repropping within the first 5 years. My Volvo TAMD41s would run at 3300 WOT if propped for it, but there is no need to get them that excited.

Just sayin, you don't need to rush those props in to change their pitch.
I hear you. Really need to be cruising above 1,000 to 1,200 rpm. In a perfect world, 1,350 rpm @ 6 knots and 1,600 rpm @ 7 knots would be my choice. The other reason for changing now is warranty. When the dealer comes for the sea trial to sign off on my installation, it has to turn rated rpm, if I want a warranty. There may be a little wiggle room, but not 750 rpm.

Ted
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:29 PM   #318
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Another tough day of boating on Chesapeake Bay in January. Sunset this afternoon after working hard to break in the new engine. This is tough, but somebody has to brave these conditions.

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Ted
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:46 PM   #319
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Had some time today to play with my new HP all in one Computer. Sean made a nice cradle for it with a base that grabs the back brace so it stays put. Has it's own GPS receiver and a wireless Logitech keyboard. Currently running Polar Navy with NOAA charts. All in, I think I have around $500 in everything. Runs happily off the inverter.

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Ted
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Old 01-03-2016, 10:32 PM   #320
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Ted, the HP18 looks good! How is it on glare? I will also be redoing the panel and installing a computer in a cradle much like you did.

Bob
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