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Old 02-02-2018, 10:09 PM   #1
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Model 50 Uniflow Valve

Iíve searched this topic in TF and online, and I think I know the answer. But I thought it was worth asking again.

Does anyone know of an alternative/replacement for this valve? It is part of our Capilano hydraulic steering system. Click image for larger version

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Old 02-02-2018, 10:52 PM   #2
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I have never seen a replacement. Not even a kit to rebuild one.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:00 PM   #3
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I am off on a ski trip right now. When I get home I will post an alternative valve that is still available.

Research Vetus for possible replacement valve.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:06 AM   #4
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I have the same basic set up (the older Capilano models with 3 lines). When I originally researched replacement options, there were some on-line references to a Vetus k30/140 non-return valve as being a possible option. The fittings are in metric so would probably also need some conversion. Never progressed beyond that so can't be sure how viable it would be. Contacting Vetus would probably be your best option.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltrider1 View Post
I am off on a ski trip right now. When I get home I will post an alternative valve that is still available.

Research Vetus for possible replacement valve.


I read a post on T&T from 2006 that says Vetus K30/140 is a replacement. However, I have seen nothing from anyone saying they have actually used it. The configuration is different in that there are two lines in and two lines out. The post refers to a second Vetus part that may be part of the set-up. Iíd sure like to hear from someone who has used the Vetus parts.
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:05 AM   #6
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Mike what's the actual problem? Has the valve failed or is it leaking? Have you considered asking a hydraulics shop to rebuild? I'll follow this thread with interest as I also have this valve (and no doubt the same overall system as Robert....sister ship).
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:30 AM   #7
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Mike what's the actual problem? Has the valve failed or is it leaking? Have you considered asking a hydraulics shop to rebuild? I'll follow this thread with interest as I also have this valve (and no doubt the same overall system as Robert....sister ship).


The valve has apparently failed. The steering pumps were rebuilt and tested. The lines were flushed. The valve was flushed with ATF. The technician was unable to recharge the system because the valve is either stuck or leaking by.

Boatyard disassembled the valve and had a well-regarded machinist look at it. The conclusion is that the valve body is worn. It would be hard and costly to rebuild.

So if there is no substitute for the Uniflow valve, the only option is new steering pumps.
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:46 AM   #8
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Sounds like this outfit has a workaround. If you do call them please let us know the outcome:

https://www.seatechmarineproducts.co...low-valve.html
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:19 PM   #9
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Sounds like this outfit has a workaround. If you do call them please let us know the outcome:

https://www.seatechmarineproducts.co...low-valve.html


I talked to them for quite a while this morning. The guy sounded very knowledgeable, but they donít really have a work around. There isnít one. If the U50 is really bad, the only answer is new helm pumps.

He did question whether the valve was really bad though. He says they rarely go bad and suspects that the technician was not bleeding the system properly. The technician was very experienced and quite knowledgeable, so I donít know what to think about that.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:30 PM   #10
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SeaStar Solutions || a global supplier of marine equipment for sports and leisure boats.

This outfit bought Capilano and Teleflex. American. Maybe give them a call?
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:29 PM   #11
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Mike I'm sure you have seen the various other online discussions around this. Consistently those say the U50 can be rebuilt by a good machine/hydraulics shop....just a matter of seals and o-rings. Teleflex itself was apparently still selling seal kits....have you confirmed with them these are not available? I'd be spending some time calling outfits like Great Lakes Skipper & similar for a used replacement before I shelled out for 2 x new helm pumps not to mention the labor costs of the change over.
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:09 PM   #12
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That thing looks like it may be just two relief valves that vent into the center port. The non return valves must be in the helm pumps as otherwise if you use two helms, one wheel will turn if you turn the other.

Have you taken the thing apart to see what the internals are like? If just relief valves, then you could just use the one from Hynautic which are available.

Also, could not imagine the thing preventing bleeding (???).
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:31 PM   #13
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From post #6 in a thread by obthmas started 07-01-2014 by rduval: TheUniflow valve is a set of shuttle valves so the cylinder has a return path to the helms whether going to port or to starboard. The helms do not have checkvalves as the uniflow eliminates the need.


And from obthomas post #13 in that same thread: the purpose of the univalve isto eliminate check valves at the helms.

obthmas also posted a number of very useful Capilano documents in that thread, which explain exactly how the Uniflow valve is to be installed and how it can be used to simply & easily bleed the system. The key point I think is that theCapilano/Teleflex 250V-based systems are not true 3-line, but 2-line systems; the 3rd line from the Univalve is not pressurized for steering, but 'just' provides a return pathway back to the helm pumps. These systems were regarded as best-in-class in their day and were installed in many commercial vessels doing hard service.


There is also the mysterious, recurring reference to a Vetus solution: I think most of these are in fact quoting the one 2006 online source (details below),which says:


"What to do if your Univalve fails? I have found a company by the name of Vetus Den Ouden, Inc which is a Netherlands company. They have US distribution from Maryland, see www.vetus.com.
This company sells their own pumps cylinders etc primarily in the European market. Their pumps are sold with a built in return valve or without. For the "non-return" pumps, they route expelled steering slave cylinder fluid through a "non-return" valve block (same idea as the Uvalve). This valve
is available as part number K30/140 for $US260. The drawback is that the entire Vetus line of steering components is plumbed in metric fittings. With a little creativity, this speed bump can be circumvented. You could save your old sytle Capilano pump which use the 3 line system. Vetus [also] offers another valve which will serve as a Non-return block. This one also has a by-pass valve built into it which will allow for system bleeding and in the event you need to put a tiller onto your rudder in an emergency steering situation. This non-return/bypass valve is over $600,..."

[source: http://lists.trawlering.com/pipermai...l/103867.html]


I think it would be worth following up this Vetus reference, which isvery specific. And if not Vetus, another generic bypass-valve solution. I suspect Ski (Eric's)post could have the answer. While Teleflex & Seastar don't provide direct replacements, it doesn't seem like what the U-50 is doing is unique in the hydraulics world. SeaStar & others have a commercial interest in 'upgrading' customers to the newer...but not necessarilybetter....1250 (and equivalent) helm pumps. At around $1,000+ for each pump before the skilled labour involved in removing not just the 250V pumps but univalve and 3rd line (yes, it could be just capped off), those with 2+ helms who think they need to go this route might want to evaluate jumping even further along the technology chain to even newer solutions from other vendors
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:52 PM   #14
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a marine engineer froend of mine suggested you just take it to a really good hydraulics shop and they will know what it is.with a little dialogue.

They should be able to fix or replace it with a common valve setup, non marine, but for a couple hundred bucks.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:31 AM   #15
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Thanks for the replies. Weíve been in this Boatyard for 4 months suffering through a very bad Virginia winter. So we are taking the path of least resistance and buying new helm pumps. They are on their way.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:24 AM   #16
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Thanks for the replies. Weíve been in this Boatyard for 4 months suffering through a very bad Virginia winter. So we are taking the path of least resistance and buying new helm pumps. They are on their way.
I agree with PSneeld. Go to an ag hydraulic shop. Once the mechanical function of the device is understood, they should be able to assemble a replacement from parts on the shelf or repair what you have. Farmers are constantly dreaming up new ways to use hydraulics, so these shops are adept at innovation.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:00 PM   #17
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Thanks for the replies. Weíve been in this Boatyard for 4 months suffering through a very bad Virginia winter. So we are taking the path of least resistance and buying new helm pumps. They are on their way.
Mike....did you order the 1250's? As you can tell there's a lot of interest in this topic so i hope you will continue to post and report on the installation experience.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:01 AM   #18
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Mike....did you order the 1250's? As you can tell there's a lot of interest in this topic so i hope you will continue to post and report on the installation experience.


Yes the new helm pumps have been ordered. As I said earlier, weíve been here a long time and are anxious to leave. So we went with the yardís recommendation to buy new pumps.

Iíll provide an update when the work is done.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:01 PM   #19
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Update: Both helm pumps were replaced with model 1275s. The technician was able to use the existing copper tubing to connect them. So no additional plumbing was required. Took about 12 man-hours.

We left Deltaville three days ago. Pilothouse helm, which seemed fine during sea trials, is not completely right. It is a bit harder to turn to port than it is to turn starboard. And it doesnít move as smoothly to starboard. We are hoping that the problem is air in the pump, we continue to try to bleed the air out of the system.

Mike
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:44 PM   #20
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Mike....thanks for providing the feedback. Given no lines had to be replaced, what took up the 12 hours of labour?
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