Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-20-2018, 12:22 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
Lead ballast

400 lbs of lead ballast. Going in the stern to counter act bow down due to anchor chain and also when water tank is empty. Water tank located under rear cabin. Click image for larger version

Name:	20180320_091730.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	110.8 KB
ID:	74372
__________________
Advertisement

senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 12:55 PM   #2
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,499
Are you going to glass it in?
__________________

Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 12:57 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
I wasnt planning on it. But i do need to secure them. I have a good spot beside my water tank that will fit them.
senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 01:04 PM   #4
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,499
I put a bunch of lead ballast in a previous boat. We glassed it in as I didnít want it moving in a large sea. I didnít have any way to bolt them down since the lead was going against the hull. After we glassed it in I never saw any indication that it had moved at all. You donít want a 60 pound or so missle flying areound your bilge.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 01:13 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
Give me something to think about.
senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 04:08 PM   #6
Guru
 
DHeckrotte's Avatar
 
City: Philadelphia, PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Revel
Vessel Model: 1984 Fu Hwa 39
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 971
Can you get it further aft? Against the transom? Do you have something you need, like a dinghy on davits, or the spare anchor and rode that could profitably be placed aft? Do you have something heavy that you don't need up forward?

You might want to take 400lbs of friends, parked on the taffrail, for a look-see and a ride. See if you notice any difference in trim or knots/rpm.

My experience (on power and sail) is that weight 'way forward makes much more difference in trim than weight aft.
DHeckrotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 06:35 PM   #7
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHeckrotte View Post
My experience (on power and sail) is that weight 'way forward makes much more difference in trim than weight aft.
+1

If you look at the width of the bow at the waterline versus the stern, you may be disappointed by what the ballast will actually accomplish. Ballasting the stern may not bring the bow up. When Ballasting my boat, I didn't fix anything in place till I was satisfied with the results.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 06:38 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
It lowered the stern 1 inch and bow up and an inch as well. But not much overall.
senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 06:55 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
alfamike's Avatar
 
City: Camarillo
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 258
Quick Question to "senangsekali"

Quick Question to "senangsekali"

What is it costing for lead bars per pound these days for the ballast ?

What are they going for, price wise each, to by a 20 lb bar like these now-a-days ?

Any "Quantity Discounts" when you buy 400 Lbs. at a time ?

Is it cheaper to by in 20 Lbs. Bars, or 50 Lbs. Bars or 70 Lbs. Bars ?

Thanks.

Alfa Mike
alfamike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:05 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfamike View Post
Quick Question to "senangsekali"

What is it costing for lead bars per pound these days for the ballast ?

What are they going for, price wise each, to by a 20 lb bar like these now-a-days ?

Any "Quantity Discounts" when you buy 400 Lbs. at a time ?

Is it cheaper to by in 20 Lbs. Bars, or 50 Lbs. Bars or 70 Lbs. Bars ?

Thanks.

Alfa Mike
I paid $1.10 per pound.
senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:06 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by senangsekali View Post
I paid $1.10 per pound.
Also i got a .20 cent dicount for buying 400 lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfamike View Post
Quick Question to "senangsekali"

What is it costing for lead bars per pound these days for the ballast ?

What are they going for, price wise each, to by a 20 lb bar like these now-a-days ?

Any "Quantity Discounts" when you buy 400 Lbs. at a time ?

Is it cheaper to by in 20 Lbs. Bars, or 50 Lbs. Bars or 70 Lbs. Bars ?

Thanks.

Alfa Mike
senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:11 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHeckrotte View Post
Can you get it further aft? Against the transom? Do you have something you need, like a dinghy on davits, or the spare anchor and rode that could profitably be placed aft? Do you have something heavy that you don't need up forward?

You might want to take 400lbs of friends, parked on the taffrail, for a look-see and a ride. See if you notice any difference in trim or knots/rpm.

My experience (on power and sail) is that weight 'way forward makes much more difference in trim than weight aft.
I have it placed right at the transom. I am going to make a box and glass it in. I will secure a top on it. I have about 1.5 ft behind my rudder post. That is clear to make a 3 ft box for the lead.
senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:24 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
HenryD's Avatar
 
City: New Bern, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Seven Tenths (is for SALE)
Vessel Model: Mirage / Great Harbour 47
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 403
When we bought our boat, the prior owner had loaded 2500 lbs of lead bards as far forward as he could get it. They were not secured, just stacked. I contacted our architect and he ran the numbers. He calculated the extra weight moved the bow down at most 1.25". We removed the lead and I moved some bilge storage around and have not really noticed a difference.
Good luck with your changes.
HenryD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:29 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 373
May I ask where you sourced your ballast? Locally in Seattle I was getting quotes closer to $2/lb.
Airstream345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:35 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstream345 View Post
May I ask where you sourced your ballast? Locally in Seattle I was getting quotes closer to $2/lb.
Local guy here in Victoria BC who salvages old boats.
senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 07:57 PM   #16
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,834
Yes I agree Airstream,
That’s cheap.

Re the bow down how much chain and what size is it? I’d shorten/lighten chain.

I’ll bet you have twin FL’s and they are unusually far fwd.

But aside from reducing ground tackle weight I’d look throughout the boat for heavy things that can be moved aft. I worked at Uniflite in the 70’s moving heavy items around to improve trim, however it was usually lateral. They were new boats and therefore didn’t have as many things to move. Many to most boat owners literally fill a boat up w “stuff” w little or no consideration to weight. My water tanks are aft too but I usually keep them fairly full. I belive a boat handles better and is safer w weight a bit too far aft rather than too far fwd. but before you get rilled at boat designers boats get too active in pitch w all the weight amidships.

So I’d go after that anchor rode and then get serious about moving “stuff” aft. And while you’re at it see if you have a list to correct too .. as long as you’re moving stuff around ...

I talk about this issue rather seriously because I think there are quite a number of boats on TF that could benefit from trim adjustment. Mostly bow down. So I’m probably addressing many more than the OP.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 08:26 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
kapnd's Avatar
 
City: hawaii
Country: usa
Vessel Name: #31
Vessel Model: ex-Navy MUB 50 fish/cruise
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 456
I added a ton of lead at the stern, had less than an inch of change in the waterline at the stern, negligible change at the bow. Also no discernible difference in ride or speed.
Concluded that it was a poorly thought out and expensive experiment.
Should have done preliminary test with water, it’s free!
Wound up with the lead in the engine room, low and center, for slightly less roll.
Currently packing sack concrete around the lead, just enough to keep it from shifting.
__________________
You can lead a horse to water,
But you can't make him ski...
kapnd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 08:39 PM   #18
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,499
On one of our previous boats we had to add ballast in the stern. None of the drains in the boat worked because the builder added a cockpit to a design that didnít have one originally. We added 1300 pounds in the stern and increased our water tanks in the stern by almost 100 gallons. It made the drains work better, but not as good as I would have liked but I didnít have any more room for more ballast. The boat had a 16í beam so there was a huge amount of bouyancy aft. It was the best I could do short of cutting off the cockpit and that wasnít happening... Good luck with your project. We also replaced the fuel tank that was in the stern but not all the way into the cockpit and went from 400 gallons to 565 gallons. It takes a lot of ballast in the stern to make a difference.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 09:54 PM   #19
Al
Guru
 
Al's Avatar
 
City: ketchikan, Alaska
Country: usa
Vessel Name: 'SLO'~BELLE
Vessel Model: 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstream345 View Post
May I ask where you sourced your ballast? Locally in Seattle I was getting quotes closer to $2/lb.
Is your quote based on What? Scrap lead in what form? Asked as I purchased 50# lead ingots at$1.20 # two years or so months ago. Freight was $.20 per # laid into Ketchikan. Purchased a total of 1400#. Boy, unlike some of the post here, without this ballast amount, our boat was a cork!! Hobby horsed and rolled at such a rate that one thought about abandoning ship literally
.
I have extolled the use of this ballast on the forum to a great extent so will hold back save to say our boat now is as stable as one could wish for being a 28 foot boat with a 10 foot max beam. Where we drew near 3 feet draft, now we are near 3' 4".
Our ballast is loose in terms related to that laying alongside the engine stringers, the majority is located between the stringers and is self locking due to that arrangement. The ingots to the sides are taped with gorilla tape as the are 2 1/2" high by 4" wide, so they remain fixed, the tape is redundant

Al-Ketchikan
Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 10:07 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
senangsekali's Avatar
 
City: Victoria
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Senang Sakali
Vessel Model: North Sea 37
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Yes I agree Airstream,
Thatís cheap.

Re the bow down how much chain and what size is it? Iíd shorten/lighten chain.

Iíll bet you have twin FLís and they are unusually far fwd.

But aside from reducing ground tackle weight Iíd look throughout the boat for heavy things that can be moved aft. I worked at Uniflite in the 70ís moving heavy items around to improve trim, however it was usually lateral. They were new boats and therefore didnít have as many things to move. Many to most boat owners literally fill a boat up w ďstuffĒ w little or no consideration to weight. My water tanks are aft too but I usually keep them fairly full. I belive a boat handles better and is safer w weight a bit too far aft rather than too far fwd. but before you get rilled at boat designers boats get too active in pitch w all the weight amidships.

So Iíd go after that anchor rode and then get serious about moving ďstuffĒ aft. And while youíre at it see if you have a list to correct too .. as long as youíre moving stuff around ...

I talk about this issue rather seriously because I think there are quite a number of boats on TF that could benefit from trim adjustment. Mostly bow down. So Iím probably addressing many more than the OP.
Hello, I have a single fl120 which to me is a little forward. I have 300ft of 3/8" chain. When i removed the chain last year it came up approximately 2" or so if not more. Ye the chain is heavy bbb chain. So im just trying to level the boat better when the water tank is empty. This exagerates the bow down when the tank is empty.
__________________

senangsekali is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012