Have you cleaned your Prop lately?

[nemier]

Jumped in the water a couple of days ago, to use a new WaveBlade tool we bought, and holeycow, we actually burned a full gallon-per-hour LESS on the way back to dock. I had hoped to achieve some positive results, but this was an unexpected bonus. Happy camper here

The prop was covered in a hard growth, perhaps only 2 mm thick. I removed the growth so that the prop was smooth by touch, although the barnacle 'footprint' was still evident. Previously, I'd spend a couple of hours scraper and wire-brush. I have no idea how robust the tool is / how long it will last, but at first use, I'm pleased.

 

[Marin]

We, like many boaters in our harbor, have a dive service check the underside of our hull twice a year. By law they cannot wipe down the bottom but they can knock off barnacles and other growth, change zincs, and perform other maintenance.

We also use our boat year round which does a lot to prevent growth on the running gear. Spins the baby barnacles off the props I guess.

So between regular use and the dive service our props stay quite clean. We also have them cleaned and polished when we have the boat out every couple of years for bottom painting.

But boats that sit a lot can accumulate an impressive amount of growth on the running gear. This last summer was abnormally sunny in our area and this promoted the rapid development of bottom and running gear growth. According to the dive service, everyone was having issues with bottom growth. And yes, it can be surprisingly detrimental to a boat's efficiency and speed.

 

[nemier]

Here in Hawaii, it's something you gotta do every month,,, the growth is that fierce.

 

[Marin]

Here in Hawaii, it's something you gotta do every month,,, the growth is that fierce.

Having grown up in Hawaii and fished for years off the north shore of Oahu and in the Molokai Channel, I am well aware of that.

 

[drb1025]

I just hauled mine out. It's been a good summer for barnacles. I am going to paint the bottom, rudders, and struts, polish the props, and maybe use some propspeed. Also waxing the areas of the hull that I can't reach at the dock.

 

[Edelweiss]

Unlike you warm water sailors, we normally have little trouble with underwater growth as it's relatively slow growing here in the PNW.

But I just had my diver change my prop and rudder zinc and was sorry to hear that the anti barnacle painted shafts, props and rudders had significant growth since it was painted back in April.

That was $60 dollars worth of Pettit Prop Coat I won't bother with next haulout.

 

[BandB]

Jumped in the water a couple of days ago, to use a new WaveBlade tool we bought, and holeycow, we actually burned a full gallon-per-hour LESS on the way back to dock. I had hoped to achieve some positive results, but this was an unexpected bonus. Happy camper here

The prop was covered in a hard growth, perhaps only 2 mm thick. I removed the growth so that the prop was smooth by touch, although the barnacle 'footprint' was still evident. Previously, I'd spend a couple of hours scraper and wire-brush. I have no idea how robust the tool is / how long it will last, but at first use, I'm pleased.

Monthly plus we use Propspeed and hope we'd never let it get to the point of needing to use something like Waveblade. Can't imagine letting it get like drb's photo. Not criticizing him, just saying I wouldn't be happy with that.

 

[Marin]

We have had the prop-protection discussion with the yard we use in our harbor and the conclusion has been this: in their experience the less-expensive spray on coatings are good for about a year at best. After that they offer no significant protection.

Prop Speed, which is very expensive for whatever reason, is longer lasting. But they said that if one hauls their boat every two years, in this climate it's not worth the cost.

The best thing in their opinion to minimize prop fouling is to use the boat. For boats that spend most of their time just sitting and are used only seasonally for relatively short periods, something like Prop Speed can help reduce the amount of growth up to a point.

We have elected to use nothing on the props and until this year we've not had a growth problem. This year a combination of less time using the boat, a longer time than normal between haulouts, and a very, growth-inducing summer combined to promote a fair amount of barnacle growth on the props and running gear.

 

[dwhatty]

Unlike you warm water sailors, we normally have little trouble with underwater growth as it's relatively slow growing here in the PNW.

But I just had my diver change my prop and rudder zinc and was sorry to hear that the anti barnacle painted shafts, props and rudders had significant growth since it was painted back in April.

That was $60 dollars worth of Pettit Prop Coat I won't bother with next haulout.

Have had a different experience with the Pettit Prop Coat here in Downeast waters. Before I started using it three years ago, there would be an extended family of barnacles on our prop on fall haul out. Since I started using it, have had almost nothing on the prop on haul out.

 

[Insequent]

For warmer waters Propspeed is very desirable. If whoever applies it hasn't been certified to use it then make sure they read the instructions and follow them to the letter. There are a few traps which will lead to partial failures or shorter life. If your yard does not use it regularly then do it yourself to ensure no mistakes!

And yes, clean props make an amazing difference.

 

[Marin]

Before I started using it three years ago, there would be an extended family of barnacles on our prop on fall haul out. Since I started using it, have had almost nothing on the prop on haul out.

That would seem to be consistent with what the yard told us--- good for about a year.

 

[djleu]

I share a photo of one of our props after two years in PNW waters with Propspeed. Just hauled in Bellingham.

 

[BandB]

For warmer waters Propspeed is very desirable. If whoever applies it hasn't been certified to use it then make sure they read the instructions and follow them to the letter. There are a few traps which will lead to partial failures or shorter life. If your yard does not use it regularly then do it yourself to ensure no mistakes!

And yes, clean props make an amazing difference.

Application also makes a huge difference on the Pettit products too. In fact, they recommend even longer for drying, must be applied over 50 degrees, less than 90 degrees, time between the coats, no more than two or three coats and then for best results another of their products on top of it, their Hydrocoat Anti Fouling paint. Oh and using their thinner before you start.

We've never used the Pettit product, only Propspeed but we do know one captain who swears by it.

 

[Nomad Willy]

BandB,
I did it by da book except for "their" thinner.

 

[Peter B]

The prop was covered in a hard growth, perhaps only 2 mm thick. I removed the growth so that the prop was smooth by touch, although the barnacle 'footprint' was still evident. Previously, I'd spend a couple of hours scraper and wire-brush. I have no idea how robust the tool is / how long it will last, but at first use, I'm pleased.

I strongly recommend propped also. We are in warm water, yet I get 3 years out of it with no diver cleaning it either, yet here is how it looked even before a pressure hose-down when it last came out. Second shot is after the pressure wash, but no scrubbing or burnishing.

 

[FF]

Herreshoff used to suggest you envision the prop at the size of the vessel, to comprehend what even "minor " fouling will do.

 

[AusCan]

I got almost 3 years out of propspeed without any growth other than on the nut. My biggest growth problem by far is on my stainless keel shoe. This requires a good scrape at least every 6 months as it affects the water flow to the prop.
At a haul-out 6 months ago I tried a cheap fix and coated the shoe with a $10 can of spray on zinc galvanizer. It made no difference at all when I hauled out again last month. I might propspeed the shoe next time I do the prop.

 

[BandB]

I got almost 3 years out of propspeed without any growth other than on the nut. My biggest growth problem by far is on my stainless keel shoe. This requires a good scrape at least every 6 months as it affects the water flow to the prop.
At a haul-out 6 months ago I tried a cheap fix and coated the shoe with a $10 can of spray on zinc galvanizer. It made no difference at all when I hauled out again last month. I might propspeed the shoe next time I do the prop.

We Propspeed everything metal.

 

[rwidman]

We, like many boaters in our harbor, have a dive service check the underside of our hull twice a year. By law they cannot wipe down the bottom but they can knock off barnacles and other growth, change zincs, and perform other maintenance. .

Where and what law? How are boaters supposed to have their (boat) bottoms cleaned? (I suppose the government doesn't really care about that question.)

Do some divers clean the bottom anyway when no one is looking?

Someone is trading no bottom cleaning for excessive fuel burn and pollution. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Larry M]

Where and what law? How are boaters supposed to have their (boat) bottoms cleaned? (I suppose the government doesn't really care about that question.)

Do some divers clean the bottom anyway when no one is looking?

Someone is trading no bottom cleaning for excessive fuel burn and pollution. Makes no sense to me.

From my experience, professional divers will not risk the fine and/or reputation for noncompliance. The law is not new and most everyone has gone to a hard bottom paint which you can clean the water. With the cooler waters of the PNW, bottom cleaning has never been a monthly affair so the law doesn't have the impact like it would in Florida.

This from the State of WA DOE.

Hull Cleaning and Boat Washing

IT’S A FACT: It is illegal to perform underwater cleaning of hulls with soft, toxic coatings (ablative and sloughing). You can face a fine of up to $10,000. (RCW 90.48.080, WAC 173-201A)

Hull Cleaning and Boat Washing | Clean Green Boating | Washington State Department of Ecology

 

[BandB]

Where and what law? How are boaters supposed to have their (boat) bottoms cleaned? (I suppose the government doesn't really care about that question.)

Do some divers clean the bottom anyway when no one is looking?

Someone is trading no bottom cleaning for excessive fuel burn and pollution. Makes no sense to me.

Washington was the first state to ban copper bottom paints.

And from their web site on this subject:

IT’S A FACT: It is illegal to perform underwater cleaning of hulls with soft, toxic coatings (ablative and sloughing). You can face a fine of up to $10,000. (RCW 90.48.080, WAC 173-201A)
Most boats used in marine waters have hulls coated with soft toxic paints (ablative or sloughing) to keep aquatic organisms from attaching. These coatings contain toxic chemicals that are poisonous to salmon and aquatic life. Toxic chemicals are released when you disturb or clean soft toxic paints.

If your boat hull has soft toxic paint, do NOT clean it in or near the water, or near a stormdrain.

Know your hull’s surface before you clean it. If it has soft toxic paint, take your boat out of water to a facility that collects all discharges and debris. To do this work yourself on land, use a tarp and vacuum sander to collect all debris, and dispose of it properly.​

They suggest non toxic hard coatings or epoxy based hard paints.

Here is their page on cleaning of boats..

Hull Cleaning and Boat Washing | Clean Green Boating | Washington State Department of Ecology

 

[Marin]

I don't think copper bottom paint is outlawed in Washington. The large yard we use still uses it on our boat and many if not most of the boat's in our harbor also use it. The amount of copper in the paint may be regulated, but not the use of copper itself.

The regulations may have changed recently but as of our last bottom paint application (this past August) ablative paint containing copper was used.

However, these bottoms cannot be wiped down by a diver in the water. Barnacles can be scraped off but overall wipe-downs are not permitted. I believe wipe downs are still permitted on boats with hard-paint bottoms. But most boaters in our harbor seem to prefer the ablative paints as you don't get the buildup over time with this type of paint.

 

[Baker]

I never get growth on my prop. I use my boat. I use nothing on the props. And have never had an issue.

With that said, I have heard that surfboard wax does a great job. Not sure how it would affect the dynamics of the prop but I would imagine the stuff staying on there for quite some time. There are dayglo colored waxes so you could see when it was gone. One would also be able to apply it underwater. Just a thought.

 

[BandB]

I don't think copper bottom paint is outlawed in Washington. The large yard we use still uses it on our boat and many if not most of the boat's in our harbor also use it. The amount of copper in the paint may be regulated, but not the use of copper itself.

The regulations may have changed recently but as of our last bottom paint application (this past August) ablative paint containing copper was used.

However, these bottoms cannot be wiped down by a diver in the water. Barnacles can be scraped off but overall wipe-downs are not permitted. I believe wipe downs are still permitted on boats with hard-paint bottoms. But most boaters in our harbor seem to prefer the ablative paints as you don't get the buildup over time with this type of paint.

Yes, the section I referenced above would say you can clean hard paint bottoms but cannot wipe down an ablative bottom. For that reason, even without others, I'd choose a hard bottom paint if there. I choose hard in South Florida but for different reasons.

As to the copper paint,I was quoting only a headline without the content. Boat US in Feb/Mar 2012 has an article that I quote below. You are right about a limit, but a very low limit. It also is not in effect yet and applies to 65' and under only. So today, people are still using copper.

More than two decades ago, the U.S. outlawed toxic tributyltin (TBT) in antifouling bottom paint, and copper-based substitutes took over to control marine growth on the hull. Last year, Washington became the first state to ban copper paint on environmental grounds.

When it comes to painting the bottom of a recreational vessel's hull to discourage marine growth, boaters currently have a wide array of products from which to choose. And while the choices can be a bit bewildering, beginning January 1, 2020, boaters in the state of Washington can scratch off their lists any paints that contain more than 0.5 percent copper. That's because last year, in response to concerns about contamination in Washington waters, the state legislature outlawed copper-based antifouling paints. (Paints on the market today contain 20- to 70-percent copper.)​

I also found the Port of Edmonds distributed a document explaining it's impact. http://portofedmonds.org/wp-content/uploads/marina-services-environ-copper-free.pdf

 

[Marin]

Yes, the section I referenced above would say you can clean hard paint bottoms but cannot wipe down an ablative bottom. For that reason, even without others, I'd choose a hard bottom paint if there.

Ablative paints are preferred here because it eliminates the buildup issue. We have noticed little difference in growth between when we used to have a diver wipe down the bottom of our PNW boat every six months and the last few years when we couldn't have this done.

Of course the paint eventually wears out so if the bottom is not repainted the acceleration of growth can be significant. Also if a boat just sits most of the time (which tends to describe the bulk of the recreational boats in any harbor) an ablative paint may not be the best choice because it's not being sloughed off periodically to expose the fresh anti-fouling ingredients underneath.

We use our boat year round so for us, ablative makes much more sense than hard paint.

 

[BandB]

Ablative paints are preferred here because it eliminates the buildup issue. We have noticed little difference in growth between when we used to have a diver wipe down the bottom of our PNW boat every six months and the last few years when we couldn't have this done.

Of course the paint eventually wears out so if the bottom is not repainted the acceleration of growth can be significant. Also if a boat just sits most of the time (which tends to describe the bulk of the recreational boats in any harbor) an ablative paint may not be the best choice because it's not being sloughed off periodically to expose the fresh anti-fouling ingredients underneath.

We use our boat year round so for us, ablative makes much more sense than hard paint.

Ablative has a very short life in our area. Just goes to show the difference from one place to another.

 

[Brooksie]

I got almost 3 years out of propspeed without any growth other than on the nut. My biggest growth problem by far is on my stainless keel shoe. This requires a good scrape at least every 6 months as it affects the water flow to the prop.
At a haul-out 6 months ago I tried a cheap fix and coated the shoe with a $10 can of spray on zinc galvanizer. It made no difference at all when I hauled out again last month. I might propspeed the shoe next time I do the prop.

Had that same problem for many years until I discovered that applying bottom paint directly to metal, even with a prime coat, depletes the action of the bottom paint in a few days. You need a barrier coat. I use two coats of epoxy after grinding a good "tooth" for it to hold on to. I thicken the 2nd coat with silica. Problem solved. The epoxy coats last 5 years if I don't rub them off on the bottom.

 

[rwidman]

So divers cannot clean ablative bottom paint in the water but they can clean hard paint? That wasn't clear in the first post. I use Petit Trinidad SR 77 and I assume that would be classified as "hard paint" and could be cleaned by a diver, right?


The EPA and tree huggers will have us all out of the water and driving motor homes eventually if we don't put up some resistance.

 

[Marin]

I use Petit Trinidad SR 77 and I assume that would be classified as "hard paint" and could be cleaned by a diver, right?

If the paint you use is classified as non-ablative then at this point in this state it can be wiped down in the water. If it's not classified as a non-ablative paint then it cannot be wiped down in the water.

There are also a bunch of regulations that govern how a boat's bottom is cleaned on shore, too. These apply to all boat bottoms, not just ones with ablative paint on them. The yards add the cost of complying with these regulations to the cost of a haulout and cleaning, even if you do the cleaning yourself.

The EPA and tree huggers will have us all out of the water and driving motor homes eventually if we don't put up some resistance.

These regulations are conceived and passed by folks with no real interest in hearing what boaters have to say. The decisions are made at a far higher level than one low enough to take into account user opinions.

There may be an opportunity at the outset for a user (boater in this case) to express an opinion-- usually for these kinds of things today it's a website to which one can submit their opinion in writing. But even if the opinions are overwhelmingly against the proposed environmental restriction it's been our observation that it ends up being enacted into law anyway. I am not aware of single environmental protection regulation proposal in this state that has ever not been enacted eventually, although there may well be some I've not heard of.

I actually don't mind them. I'm all for not poisoning fish and sea creatures or contributing to the deterioration of the water, fresh or salt. I fish a lot in both environments and I'm not so naive as to think that the fish and what they eat will do just fine if we continue practices that cause them to get sick and/or die or kill off their sources of food.

So I have no problem with the requirement to not wipe down ablative bottoms in the water. I've seen the clouds of stuff that comes off when you do and if I was living in the water I wouldn't want to be taking that in.

 

[BruceK]

I got almost 3 years out of propspeed without any growth other than on the nut. My biggest growth problem by far is on my stainless keel shoe. This requires a good scrape at least every 6 months as it affects the water flow to the prop.
At a haul-out 6 months ago I tried a cheap fix and coated the shoe with a $10 can of spray on zinc galvanizer. It made no difference at all when I hauled out again last month. I might propspeed the shoe next time I do the prop.

I understand the temptation, but I`m told Propspeed only works on things that turn, spinning any growth off before it takes hold. I was ready to Propspeed shafts, skegs, and props, until the shipwrights told me doing the skegs, which foul badly, would not work and would be a waste of $. So we did the props and shafts,I won`t know until the boat comes up how it is going, unless I take a swim inspection over the hols.