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Old 06-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #81
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Why are you saying "screw up your bottom paint?" This is a proven formula used by hundreds of boats for decades.

This is exactly why I didn't want to post it in the first place. It's like cancer research. All the doctors say they can't cure cancer yet and keep requesting millions for more research, yet thousands of people are cured with herbs and natural cures.

You are going to believe whatever you choose and I totally understand. Some people feel warm and fuzzy staying in their box.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:14 AM   #82
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Just to finish the photo sequence in post #69;
Nice looking vessel !
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:15 AM   #83
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I clean my own bottoms and paint em too – cause... I Like It! Keeps Me Young!!

I have much agreement with fstbttms re boat-bottom paint as well as his cleaning processes. But, I also wonder (as everyone does – boat owners and manufacturers alike) is there maybe some “magic” boat bottom paint mixture that could greatly reduce the process of sea growth on bottoms? Without poisoning other sea life that is!

I wonder what effect of mixing some %age of Creosote (or similar fungus killing compound) into bottom paint would accomplish?? After all... wood rot (fungus, Serpula lacrymans) is a living organism which the ingredients of wood preservatives such as Creosote kill. Seeing as sea growth are also living organisms the logical conclusion is... ??? That said, no matter what is put onto boat/ship bottoms to help reduce or stop accumulation of sea growth the environmental impact must be negligible as an outcome. To have self cleaning boat bottom paint ingredients that cause severe sea life (fish, shell-fish, coral, algae – etc) degradation is not the answer at all; ecologic complications could topple the oceans’ fine balance of continued, prospering life forms. It would be far better for us all to hand-clean our boat bottoms many times a year than to ruin the ecological balance in earth’s waters. Heck – take your boat for a cruise twice a month and do WOT for 15 minutes – that works pretty well... or go diving or hire a diver to clean your bottom!

Quote: “Creosote is a wood preservative used for commercial purposes only; it has no registered residential uses. Creosote is obtained from high temperature distillation of coal tar (itself a mixture of hundreds of organic substances), and over 100 components in creosote have been identified. It is used as a fungicide, insecticide, miticide, and sporicide to protect wood and is applied by pressure methods to wood products, primarily utility poles and railroad ties”

Fairly quick read on Tributyltin...

TBT-based antifouling paints

http://www.ukmarinesac.org.uk/activities/ports/ph4_3_1.htm
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:37 AM   #84
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This is a proven formula used by hundreds of boats for decades.
It's not proven by any means. Your own example cites a Mexican charter fishing fleet. A group of boats that are almost constantly under weigh. So do their bottoms stay clean because they used some weed killer in the paint or do they stay clean because they are on the move all the time?

As far as personal anecdotes go- if I had a dime for every time a boat owner told me, based on what he saw from the dock (because boat owners typically only actually lay eyes on their boat bottoms every few years), that his bottom was "in pretty good shape" or "not too bad", only to find a bottom that was very foul- I wouldn't have to clean boat bottoms any more. Most boat owners have very little idea what the true state of fouling is on their boats. So when someone who does not actually see his hull underwater tells me that using Roundup means his bottom does not need cleaning in Southern California (where his non-Roundup-using neighbors are being cleaned every 3-4 weeks), I take that for what it's worth.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:30 PM   #85
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The owner said before they used roundup they had to clean the bottoms. I know roundup only works on the plant growth and it works great.

Do a test panel. Paint one half with straight bottom paint, the other with roundup treated.

For me, it worked for a while until my bottom cleaning service cleaned it away. For a neighbor who sailed to the Marshall Islands via Hawaii, It worked remarkably well. His was actually a test boat. He was hauled and painted two coats of bottom paint on his hull in two days. The first day he used roundup. The second day he forgot to add it and my friend was helping him, came as he had painted the port stern 1/4 toward the bow. He asked if he added the roundup. He said he forgot and they added it to the paint and painted the remaining hull.

Before he left for Hawaii you could already see growth on that 1/4 port stern portion and nothing at all on the rest of the boat.

They made it to Hawaii and still nothing was growing. They stayed in Hawaii for two years and went to the Marshalls before hauling again.

It's nasty and not for everybody. But it works.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:26 PM   #86
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I shall deem this a pointless argument as both sides appear intractable. As has been stated the ecology must be protected at all costs however I doubt 1 in 100 people using 4oz of roundup per gallon of paint is going to cause damage. I am still curious as to whether upping the % of copper in the paint would be of any benefit...?
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:48 PM   #87
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I don't see how Roundup could possibly work as a paint additive. It is a contact herbicide, the contact being in a liquid form. It is the liquid contact with the broadleaf that allows the absorption of Roundup into the plant. It is used in aquatic plant control but it does not persist long in a water environment (somewhere around 12-20 days), and this is at pretty high concentrations. As noted, it only works on already growing plants.

If mixed in a piant suspension, how is it released? After paint has dried, even ablative paint, how does it liquefy to come into contact with budding bottom life? If I used 5 gallons to paint my bottom, I have added 20 oz of Roundup according to the formula given. Even if all 20 oz liquefies on water contact, what is the concentration even when the boat is sitting in an enclosed marina? It cannot conceivably equal the concentration when sprayed directly on plants. With tidal and current flows, how does it even remain in the area of my boat?

On the business side-Monsanto's patent on glyphosate (the active Roundup ingredient) has expired, allowing it on the open market by other producers. If there were an alternative use that could have resulted in new or extended patent protection, you can believe that Monsanto would have discovered it, patented a different formulation and it would be available in every can of bottom paint sold at a hefty price premium.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:01 PM   #88
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Could it be - and I am not a chemist - that it doesnt kill the bottom goop but repels it instead ? I mean why does it stick to a boat bottom in the first place ? Why couldnt it just make the landing place unpalatable ? Same with the cayenne pepper ?
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:02 PM   #89
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And now I am fermee in this discussion...thank you linesmen, thankyou ballboys...
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:17 PM   #90
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Not only can't find any answers, can't even find where anyone asked the question. Which goes to the point of Monsanto not even considering it as usable in such a marine environment, even given an opportunity to extend patent protection. I did find a scientific paper from France where the effect of Roundup was tested in the situation of agricultural runoff into estuaries. It was study of the effects of Roundup on marine microbes, phytoplankton and the like. While having a difficult time at reading the scientific jargon, the interesting point from the conclusions, is that there was no mention of morbidity. The microbes studied did not die off, there were changes in microbial concentrations and activity and the like, but there was no mention that massive amounts of microbes were killed. I actually found that kind of interesting. There was no mention of any effect on estuarian plant life.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:38 PM   #91
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The easy and probably only answer most of us will believe is to (and I may do it this summer when I haul and paint) do several test strips ourselves. Some round up...some pepper...and whatever else we like to try.

For me...I'm not risking screwing up paint that is formulated and tested by many independents.

If these wives tale ingredients work so well...I wonder why none of the "practical sailor" type testing isn't widely published on them.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:48 PM   #92
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In this day and age where anti fouling paints are increasingly being regulated or even banned, if all it took to dramatically improve anti fouling paint performance was the addition of a common kitchen spice or the most popular herbicide in the world, such a paint would be commercially available. Don't tell me the manufacturers don't want to make a product that's too effective because that's simply not the case. The manufacturer that could develop a product that never needed cleaning (performance that has been claimed here for some of these homespun remedies) would own the market. So why then are there no commercial examples?



Because they don't work.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:58 PM   #93
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Capthead or anyone out there, Do you have anything for thinning hair?
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:35 PM   #94
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Capthead or anyone out there, Do you have anything for thinning hair?
Norelco triple track
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:17 PM   #95
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Nice looking vessel !
Awww, shucks. Thanks!
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:18 AM   #96
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Art, Is that "Opening Day" behind your top photo, or is the traffic like that all the while? Looks like evacuation effort.

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Old 06-04-2013, 12:44 AM   #97
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Art, Is that "Opening Day" behind your top photo, or is the traffic like that all the while? Looks like evacuation effort.

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Old 06-04-2013, 02:53 AM   #98
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