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Old 11-25-2012, 11:13 AM   #21
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Some thoughts from a professional hull cleaner:

1.- Pettit Trinidad is overall, the best anti fouling paint available in the U.S., IMHO. Excellent anti fouling properties and durable as hell. Micron 66 is an excellent paint as well, but being an ablative, not as durable as Trinidad. Great stuff on powerboats though.

2.- There is no anti fouling paint available in the U.S. that does not need regular cleaning in regions of moderate to high fouling. If you feel your boat does not need cleaning, you are either using it with a dirty bottom or it lives in an area where fouling is very low.

3.- Most copper-based hard paints are compatible with most copper-based ablatives. This means hard can go over ablative and visa versa. It's all in the preparation. There is no hard-and-fast rule, such as "hard paints can never be used over ablatives."

4.- All copper-based anti fouling paints release their biocide at a proscribed rate until that biocide is reduced to an ineffective level. Typically this takes 2-3 years. This is how they are formulated to work. Exorbitant claims of paint performing well 3 or 4 times this long are not to be believed.

5.- Regular cleaning of an effective anti fouling paint (like Pettit Trinidad) will make your diver's job easier. It also means you will be getting better performance from your boat, reduced fuel consumption, carbon emissions and wear on your engines. How anybody could construe that as the diver trying to get over on the boat owner is beyond me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:44 PM   #22
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Good to hear from you. You took care of my 28' in Alameda (Marina Village) for years until I brought it up to the PNW and put it in the Columbia. I switched back and forth between salt and fresh a couple of times a year and that did a pretty good job of stretching the paint way past its normal useful life -- but when I sold the boat the buyer wanted an allowance for new paint since it was six years old.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:52 AM   #23
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Ahh, another satisfied customer.

What was your boat named?
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:25 AM   #24
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Ahh... Thanks Matt. Good stuff. Glad you replied to this.

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Old 11-27-2012, 11:27 PM   #25
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Paradise II, slip A-3, gate 8, Marina Village.
I also enjoyed your video of an underwater prop change, it was great!
Your info on the paint is much appreciated, I'm just about due now.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:10 AM   #26
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3.- Most copper-based hard paints are compatible with most copper-based ablatives. This means hard can go over ablative and visa versa. It's all in the preparation. There is no hard-and-fast rule, such as "hard paints can never be used over ablatives."
Interesting. You are the ONLY person I have heard in 14 years of owning our boat who has claimed this. Yard owners and managers, dive services, paint reps from Petit we have talked to, etc., etc., etc., all say exactly the opposite.

Regarding cleaning a boat's bottom while it's in the water, this is actually illegal in our marina and possibly other marinas in Puget Sound and has been for several years now. Divers can change zincs, knock off barnacles, inspect running gear, and make whatever underwater hardware repairs may be required, but they can no longer wipe down boat bottoms. The reason is environmental.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:06 AM   #27
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Interesting. You are the ONLY person I have heard in 14 years of owning our boat who has claimed this. Yard owners and managers, dive services, paint reps from Petit we have talked to, etc., etc., etc., all say exactly the opposite.
There are many sources of misinformation out there- hull cleaners, boat yards and boat owners chief among them (present company excepted, of course ) And I find it difficult to believe that a Pettit sales rep told you that hard paints cannot go over an ablative:

Pettit Compatibilty Chart


Interlux Compatibilty Chart


West Marine Compatibilty Chart



Quote:
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Regarding cleaning a boat's bottom while it's in the water, this is actually illegal in our marina and possibly other marinas in Puget Sound and has been for several years now. Divers can change zincs, knock off barnacles, inspect running gear, and make whatever underwater hardware repairs may be required, but they can no longer wipe down boat bottoms. The reason is environmental.
In-water cleaning of ablative paints is illegal in Washington. Other paints can be cleaned. While your particular marina may have restrictions regarding in-water hull cleaning above and beyond what the state has legislated, that does not mean it is illegal. It simply means it is against the rules in your marina. You are correct however, in that the reason behind all this is environmental. Whether that is indicative of a true regard for protecting the environment or merely reducing the marina's potential legal liability is what is unknown.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:48 AM   #28
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Regarding cleaning a boat's bottom while it's in the water, this is actually illegal in our marina and possibly other marinas in Puget Sound and has been for several years now. Divers can change zincs, knock off barnacles, inspect running gear, and make whatever underwater hardware repairs may be required, but they can no longer wipe down boat bottoms. The reason is environmental.
Maritime Authority here disapprove of barnacles knocked off in the water, though the process attracts hungry fish. I can swim and pee(far too much info) but can`t pump it thru a head.
Better hull cleaning divers here use compressed air to blow build up off the antifoul. Brushing the antifoul surface usually ended its effectiveness but cleaning with air jets is much kinder to it. Is that allowed in Puget Sound?
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:59 AM   #29
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Better hull cleaning divers here use compressed air to blow build up off the antifoul.
Surely you jest.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:56 AM   #30
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........... Regarding cleaning a boat's bottom while it's in the water, this is actually illegal in our marina and possibly other marinas in Puget Sound and has been for several years now. Divers can change zincs, knock off barnacles, inspect running gear, and make whatever underwater hardware repairs may be required, but they can no longer wipe down boat bottoms. The reason is environmental.
I have my boat's bottom cleaned by my diver ten times per year (more or less) at a cost of $62 plus any anodes, etc. If I had to add the $90 haul out charge to each of these cleanings, I would find myself another marina. Or have it done at night when no one is around. In my area, not cleaning the bottom of a boat that's kept in the water is not an option if you want to use it from time to time. Friends with planing hulls tell me that they sometimes cannot get on plane if the bottom and running gear hasn't been cleaned in a month.

I'm thinking, at least as far as boating is concerned, Washington State is the new California. You might want to consider some lobbying eforts while it's still legal to keep a boat in the water there.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:58 AM   #31
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fstbttms, Have you had any experience with this paint:

Eco-Clad | Antifouling Boat Bottom Paint | Eco-Clad

If so, what are your thoughts?
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:16 AM   #32
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fstbttms, Have you had any experience with this paint:

Eco-Clad | Antifouling Boat Bottom Paint | Eco-Clad

If so, what are your thoughts?
I have never yet come across this product and have never heard of anybody using it. My advice- don't be the guinea pig.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:03 AM   #33
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You might want to have a diver look/evaluate the bottom and zincs before you pull the boat, and while there to clean the running gear, through hulls and nay heavy growth. I have a diver twice a year to check the Eagle.

If you do pull make sure the boat is pressure washed complete. I like to let the hull dry so missed spots show up, and have them pressure wash again. Saves a lot of prep work. Make sure the hull is sanded as I have seen yards apply with out sanding. Also make sure you check in the yards work and status. Also make sure you pull at a yard that allow you and other to work on your boat.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:39 PM   #34
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I'm thinking, at least as far as boating is concerned, Washington State is the new California. You might want to consider some lobbying eforts while it's still legal to keep a boat in the water there.
We use our boat enough to keep the bottom cleaned off pretty good. And in this climate and water temperature, growth on the bottom is almost non-existent unless a boat sits for a couple of years or more without moving or being hauled out. Barnacles can be an issue on props, shafts, and rudders, hence our twice-a-year dives on the boat.

So the inability for divers to wipe down bottoms seems to be pretty much a non-issue for people who use their boats. Most of the boaters I know don't bother with a dive service at all other than perhaps to change zincs once a year or so.

So, not anything worth lobbying over.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:53 PM   #35
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We use our boat enough to keep the bottom cleaned off pretty good. And in this climate and water temperature, growth on the bottom is almost non-existent unless a boat sits for a couple of years or more without moving or being hauled out. Barnacles can be an issue on props, shafts, and rudders, hence our twice-a-year dives on the boat.

So the inability for divers to wipe down bottoms seems to be pretty much a non-issue for people who use their boats. Most of the boaters I know don't bother with a dive service at all other than perhaps to change zincs once a year or so.

So, not anything worth lobbying over.
They've outlawed copper bottom paint right? So now you and your fellow boaters will be the "guinea pigs".
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:00 PM   #36
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I have my boat's bottom cleaned by my diver ten times per year (more or less) at a cost of $62 plus any anodes, etc. ...
Wow, that frequent? How warm is your water there? Yesterday, water in my marina was 58 degrees F.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:17 PM   #37
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Wow, that frequent? How warm is your water there? Yesterday, water in my marina was 58 degrees F.
Water temp is not the only determining factor in fouling rates. Salinity, nutrient level, sunlight etc. all play a part. I've had boaters in Florida who keep boats on relatively stagnant canals tell me they almost never need to clean their hulls. In San Diego, 15 times per year is typical.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:44 PM   #38
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Surely you jest.
Fastbottoms, I`ve watched it being done. 2 or 3 guys rock up in a runabout with diving gear and take to the water with air jet pipes fed from a compressor. Seen the before and after pics the divers send me. If I get in the water with sponge and brush it does much more violence to the a/f coating than a compressed air cleaning, it often spells the end of the a/f.
Maybe I`m making a mistake doing it this way,I need to know, I`m close to requesting a cleaning job. Your online name shows a special interest, tell me why you think the method is a joke.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:54 PM   #39
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Wow, that frequent? How warm is your water there? Yesterday, water in my marina was 58 degrees F.
It can get in the 80 degree plus range in the summer. My schedule is the same as others in my area.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:44 PM   #40
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Fastbottoms, I`ve watched it being done. 2 or 3 guys rock up in a runabout with diving gear and take to the water with air jet pipes fed from a compressor. Seen the before and after pics the divers send me. If I get in the water with sponge and brush it does much more violence to the a/f coating than a compressed air cleaning, it often spells the end of the a/f.
Maybe I`m making a mistake doing it this way,I need to know, I`m close to requesting a cleaning job. Your online name shows a special interest, tell me why you think the method is a joke.
I've been in this business for over 18 years and have spoken with hull cleaners from many countries and have never heard of anybody using compressed air to clean a hull. I suspect what you saw were divers using the CaviBlaster, which delivers a "flame" of water and air bubbles through a very expensive wand that implodes fouling growth off of hulls. Not typically used for cleaning pleasure craft. Designed to clean extremely foul surfaces.

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