Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-07-2015, 08:00 AM   #61
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,518
Folks that cant afford real Monel custom made real tanks and go for second choice plastic fuel grade boxes remember they install differently.

The plastic tanks will expand and grow when first filled with fuel.

So they must first be placed in the boat , filled for 48 hours and then , usually foamed in place, with straps too.
__________________
Advertisement

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 09:57 AM   #62
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,198
I too am really curious how the inside of the hull gets glassed with the new tank in in the way of access. Maybe they just don't worry about any cuts or seams visible.
__________________

bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 10:05 AM   #63
Senior Member
 
City: louisiana
Country: usa
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 207
Ragin Cajun......Which yard is doing your work? We had a similar issue on a sportfisher back in the 80's. An aluminum tank, actually both, split on the underside where the baffles were welded in. The manufacturer used continuous welds instead of stitch welds and cracks developed necessitating R/R of both. Fortunately access was by cutting out the entire cockpit sole and reglassing in place. When finished we could not tell a difference by appearance (awlgrip texture was different than OEM but better) but we could feel less vibration in the sole underway. I think the repair was more solid than original. The work was done by Shubert's Marine at West End in N.O. Good luck with the repair. I think you are making the correct decision.
rardoin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 11:34 AM   #64
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Glassing on the interior I don't think is necessary.


While double bevels are common and may be preferred in many repairs....they can build up a lip on the inside first then do pretty much what they want... overlaps or reverse bevels.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 12:04 AM   #65
Senior Member
 
ktdtx's Avatar
 
City: Galveston, Texas
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Howdy
Vessel Model: 52' North Pacific
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 416
I'm sure there is an obvious answer but why couldn't bladders or, blivets, as we called them in the Army be used as permanent tanks?
Framed, secured, collapsible when empty.

http://http://atlinc.com/rangeextender.html
ktdtx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 06:22 AM   #66
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,518
"Glassing on the interior I don't think is necessary."

Unless you are going into water that would be over your head for walking to shore.

The problem is , even a proper construction that has a 400% safety margin on strength will still flex in a sea way.

To assure a proper bond to keep water out is not hard ,

but engineering a patch that will flex as the hull works far beyond most boat yards skill set or engineering ability.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 06:28 AM   #67
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktdtx View Post
I'm sure there is an obvious answer but why couldn't bladders or, blivets, as we called them in the Army be used as permanent tanks?
Framed, secured, collapsible when empty.

http://http://atlinc.com/rangeextender.html
Not out of the question, for sure, and often used as temporary tanks for added range, but then usually not mounted somewhere where there might be sharp protuberances to puncture them on. Down in the ER, and carrying your only precious fuel supply I would be less happy. I have a bladder holding tank safely PVC and carpet cocooned in my boat under the ER floor, but have had the water supply bladder the PO had installed develop a leak, just from moving and rubbing on a slightly gritty surface. Hence replaced by food grade plastic - much better.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 06:59 AM   #68
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"Glassing on the interior I don't think is necessary."

Unless you are going into water that would be over your head for walking to shore.

The problem is , even a proper construction that has a 400% safety margin on strength will still flex in a sea way.

To assure a proper bond to keep water out is not hard ,

but engineering a patch that will flex as the hull works far beyond most boat yards skill set or engineering ability.
I agree that most yards aren't that trustworthy for major glass repairs...in fact few do it that I know of...they farm out glass worth to glass guys.

That still doesn't mean you have to have access inside the boat for the whole process of patching the hull.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 08:22 AM   #69
Guru
 
No Mast's Avatar
 
City: Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Country: US
Vessel Name: Moana Huaka'i
Vessel Model: Selene 53
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 816
I heard that Zimmerman was good for glass repairs. I have no experience with them. Anyone?
No Mast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 08:36 AM   #70
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Not understanding exactly where/how the tanks are placed inside your boat... without moving engines, can't they be cut out piece by piece from their original position and then a group of different dimension (location fit-able) tanks installed as replacement[s]? I've even heard of, but not seen, account of tanks being collapsed enough for tight location removal by high-volume suction process.


Personally, with diesel as fuel, I might opt for the sectional cut out method.


Looking forward to see pictures. Current, undisturbed tank photos might help posters here provide recommendations.


Best Luck! - Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 08:34 AM   #71
Guru
 
motion30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 740
I've seen that video of cutting the bottom on the GB. My question is how do they get to the inside to reGlass it?
motion30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 08:38 AM   #72
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by motion30 View Post
I've seen that video of cutting the bottom on the GB. My question is how do they get to the inside to reGlass it?

Based on my reading and experience with glass work...you don't need to, it can be done from the outside, either building up a flange first if that's your method...or not...with just relying on the scarf joint.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 10:03 AM   #73
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Man - My mechanically appointed mind simply cannot fathom how huge holes can be cut into hull sides or bottoms without severe structural integrity issues... ongoing. That said; It may be that IF both sides of the hole could be thoroughly tended to during side or bottom replacement efforts that the area could again become substantially strong.

If at all possible I'd surely opt to somehow/someway remove and replace the tanks from inside without cutting cavernous holes in the hull.

My 25 cents on the issue (inflation ya know - 2 to 10 cents no longer works - lol)... YRMV!

Happy Tank-Removal/Replace Daze - Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 11:03 AM   #74
Guru
 
alormaria's Avatar
 
City: Trenton
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 902
I had the tanks in 'Angelina' replaced about 20 years ago. The boatyard had no problem pulling the engine and trans up through the saloon sole and out the side door. They do this for a living. They have massive articulating hydraulic lifts and decades of experience. They removed the tanks intact and sent them to a tank maker for exact duplicates. It was all in a day's work for them. You need to find a boatyard that does mechanical work for a living. Unfortunately, this one is no longer in business. Not because of their work or prices but because of the personality and appetites of the owner's daughter. That's another thread.
__________________
Al Johnson
34' Marine Trader
"Angelina"
alormaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 01:20 PM   #75
Guru
 
Aquabelle's Avatar
 
City: sydney
Country: australia
Vessel Name: Aquabelle
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Flushdeck
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 537
Al: of course that is the preferred approach IF the engines can be removed via cut-outs in the saloon floor. The point about the cut-the-hull-side/bottom approach is that this is viable in situations where thru-the-saloon just cannot be done. Experienced shipwrights/fibreglass guys are saying there is NO loss of structural integrity with this approach, if the 'glass work is properly carried out
Aquabelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 03:04 PM   #76
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,605
Fuel tank dilemma, help please

Perhaps it isn't the yachty thing to do and you have suggested you wouldn't consider welding the tank, but I would at least ask around about it. Go to some of the commercial tie-ups and ask around. I'll bet there are a lot of commercial vessels that take a different approach to fuel tank repairs. Perhaps this approach won't work but you won't know if you don't ask.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 03:28 PM   #77
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
Perhaps it isn't the yachty thing to do and you have suggested you wouldn't consider welding the tank, but I would at least ask around about it. Go to some of the commercial tier-ups and ask around. I'll bet there are a lot of commercial vessels that take a different approach to fuel tank repairs. Perhaps this approach won't work but you won't know if you don't ask.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
I agree with the premise of Jim's post.

Might I add... go back to my post # 36. I'm confident there must be some way to locate/pinpoint the exact location of leak. If through careful inspection tanks are otherwise deemed to be in generally OK condition then the point-of-leak should be able to be somehow accessed via minor hull intrusion and repaired-in-place. If tanks generally taint OK condition... well, then............

Again I say: Best Luck!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 04:35 PM   #78
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Remember most composite work is about bonding.... like gluing scarphs in plywood....not mechanical like screwing and bolting.


Hope I am not insulting anyone...but maybe the reason that some think inside access is absolutely necessary.

Many have their doubts and yes there had been many failures in composite work...but many more successes when done correctly.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2015, 09:25 AM   #79
Senior Member
 
ddalme's Avatar
 
City: LAFAYETTE,LA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Relenti
Vessel Model: Atlantic 30, 1983
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 406
Rajun Cajun
Sorry to hear of your problem. Did the yard start the replacement? Can't imagine the worry being caused by cutting out the sides. But, one must do what one has to do. Which yard is doing the work? Hope all goes well.
ddalme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2015, 04:35 PM   #80
Veteran Member
 
City: Beaufort, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Mikelson 43
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 82
I've got to admit the "cutting a hole in the side of the boat" made me pause. But building a flange on the inside, as some have suggested, and bonding the cutout to the flange shouldn't be a big deal.

This also made me think about visiting a naval yard with my brother-in-law, a submariner. The sub went in for a major refit, which required removal of components that had been built-in to the sub. At the refit, the yard cut big holes in the side of the sub so that the components could be accessed.

As I remember, replacement of each patch panel required nearly 2 weeks of specialized welding.

Compared to a nuclear sub hull, your patches should be a piece of cake!

Seriously, I doubt that the boat hull is very highly engineered. The safety factor is probably very high- that is, the boat is much stronger than necessary for the expected loads. Repair by a competent glass shop should not be a big deal.
__________________

ABfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012