Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-29-2015, 04:34 PM   #21
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Based on what you are telling us, I'd lean towards cutting out the bottom and replacing both tanks. Taking apart well running engines for no reason can have also sorts of unintended consequences. Many of them potentially bad.
__________________
Advertisement

Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 04:44 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
ragin cajun's Avatar
 
City: Lafayette, LA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: presently boatless
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Based on what you are telling us, I'd lean towards cutting out the bottom and replacing both tanks. Taking apart well running engines for no reason can have also sorts of unintended consequences. Many of them potentially bad.
Thanks Capt, great point. I hate the idea of disassembling good running engines. They would not be going through the bottom but rather the sides. This option also gives me something to show for all that money I'm spending with a new paint job! If I go this route I'm gonna bite the bullet and do both side tanks.
__________________

ragin cajun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 04:46 PM   #23
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
I agree with Bill. Also you'll have a nice purty paint job!
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 06:44 PM   #24
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,607
A friend had leaking tanks he and a buddy cut them apart inside the boat using a plasma cutting torch, carefully, watching for fire etc. Then he replaced each tank, about 150 gal, with two smaller tanks. It worked out well I know another guy who cut his up with a Sawzall doing a similar replacement. You lose a bit of fuel capacity but unless you are going to be doing long range cruising does that matter much?
Good luck!
__________________
Steve W.
http://mvgumbo.blogspot.com/
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 07:06 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
wyoboater's Avatar
 
City: Clear Lake Shores,Tx
Country: USA
Vessel Name: In Disguise
Vessel Model: 1985 Mainship 40 DC
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 448
With only 1000 hrs since your inframe, I see no reason to take apart those engines, Yes, inspecting and replacing parts if necessary is a good thing, but you haven't even broken them in, much less worn anything out. I'd lean towards taking them out the sides were it me. And a new paint job be ALWAYS good!
wyoboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 07:40 PM   #26
Guru
 
Aquabelle's Avatar
 
City: sydney
Country: australia
Vessel Name: Aquabelle
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Flushdeck
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 538
Dock neighbour of mine, after a lot of agonizing, finally followed the advice of the local well-regarded shipwright and cut out the side of his hull to remove/replace fuel tank. The grp hull had molded lapstrake planking effect, so he was understandably worried about not just structural integrity of the hull but the difficulty of matching the repair with the rest of the hull. In the end, job went very well and even with the boat up on the hard it is impossible to see the repair area...let alone when she's in the water. I think getting input from a naval architect would be a good idea, as suggested.


I haven't seen the youtube link to the vid showing the bottom of the hull, rather than the side, being cut out to drop the offending tank: I can imagine that would be a better/cheaper option in many respects. Anybody have the link to that?
Aquabelle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 07:58 PM   #27
Veteran Member
 
City: Laidley
Country: Queensland
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 91
Hi R C.

I have nothing to offer you except best wishes on your choice and after all the advice it is your decision.

Hi Aquabelle.

I saw that fuel tank replaced on youtube and the blokes doing the one I saw looked very second hand in the experience department, you should find it on goggle by searching " fuel tank replacement boat ".

Regards to Ragin Cajun.

David.
Manly Q. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 08:09 PM   #28
Guru
 
Aquabelle's Avatar
 
City: sydney
Country: australia
Vessel Name: Aquabelle
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Flushdeck
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 538
Thanks...I did just find one showing a Grand Banks' tank being dropped out the bottom of the hull; perhaps that's it. Looked a good way to get it out to me...fast and no need to fully repaint hull sides. I wonder how the new tank would be inserted and the bottom repaired? Tank goes up and in...then moved out of the way to other side of engine room I guess, then with hull repaired tank is moved into place and connected up/fixed down?
Aquabelle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 08:14 PM   #29
Guru
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Shores, Ala.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ulysses
Vessel Model: Romsdal 1963
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 876
One little trick we often used when welding or cutting on fuel tanks and/or fuel barges-especially if they had fuel in them was to drop in some dry ice prior to welding. This displaced the O2 in the tank with CO2, we hardly ever blew one up.

dk
ulysses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 08:15 PM   #30
Guru
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,425
I am familiar with the problem, and ended up doing all four tanks even though the two rear ones still had some life left in them. My tanks were black steel. Aluminum tanks can have major issues with poultice corrosion - correct fitting of them is critically important. So new tanks were steel with multiple coats of good epoxy paint.

In my case the yard felt that although cutting the side out might be a cheaper method of tank replacement, for optimum FRP repairs you need to do both sides of the repair area. Once the new tank is in place you are unlikely to have access to the hull from the inside.

So I removed the engines to get access to the side tanks. They had only done 1900 hours, started at first crank, did not smoke, reached WOT etc. But they were 30 years old. So the yard costed hose replacement and other R&M on the engines for me. It came to a scary number, and at the end of it I still had old engines for which parts were hard to get and/or expensive. So I ended up spending even more money for a repower with new John Deere's. New tanks in the sides was the initial driver, but not the main cost in the end.

We also looked closely at my rear tanks. One was clearly on its way out and the other showed some corrosion but would last for quite a while. Since I had decided the boat was a keeper for a long time, the smart thing to do was replace both rear tanks whilst there was good ER access.

Then, with the ER all but empty it was prudent to replace 30 yo hydronic heater hoses (nominal 10 year life) and hot/cold water lines. Etc. While we have access...... There goes a few more boat bucks....

The side tanks developed leaks because of rain water entry through the ER vents. So the vents were retrofitted with dorade-type drains to prevent re-occurrence. The tank leaks were on welded seams at corners, but large amounts of rusted steel was flaking off the sides of tanks where they were in contact with the hull, and on the bottom.

I will never recoup the refit expenditure. My advice to the OP is to really think hard about whether it is the right boat for you for 15+ years. If so, remove the engines and put in new tanks and do other "whilst we have good access' upgrades or replacements. Be aware it will be expensive.

If you have any doubt about wanting a different size boat in, say, 5 years then look at other options. The cut the hull repair method may be a good option for you as your yard has been there, done that and has a track record of coming in on repair quotes. But I would also investigate the sawzall cut-up in-situ of the tanks, and replace with multiple smaller tanks. If you do that you can just do the one that is leaking now, and defer the other side for a bit. The other one might have 5 years or more life in it anyway.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 08:35 PM   #31
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses View Post
...we hardly ever blew one up.
__________________
David Hawkins
Deer Isle, Maine
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 07:40 AM   #32
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
IN a steel vessel , chopping a hole makes sense ,in GRP to me its insanity.Criminal.

I would have the tanks chopped out piece by piece , and install as many plastic tanks as required., with one real metal fuel tank per side.

The big advantage (besides cost and structural problems) is the tanks can be only filled as required.

Sitting with huge tanks watching bugs grow or ashphalting is not fun.

By installing a marine furl tank on either side ,(if there is room) and having boxes of fuel to refill the tank underway you have an ideal cruising setup.

As good as a day tank, but easier to service.

The only fuel aboard would be in the marine tank , where water can easily be removed , and the fuel boxes would be filled before any long trip.

There are many differences between a marine fuel tank and a box of fuel , that have been covered many times, in the archives.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 07:53 AM   #33
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,789
Faced with this choice we did not cut the hull. Replaced each 300 gallon tank with two 110 gallon tanks. Love the ability to control the fuel storage with four tanks.

As to the second tank in your case, our story is a good lesson. Starboard tank leaked. Decided to replace both tanks without seeing a leak on port side. After replacing starboard tank went to remove the plywood covering the port tank and the port tank split along a rust seam releasing the three inches of water we had used in flushing the tank of diesel. Glad that didn't happen underway with a couple of hundred gallons of diesel.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 09:07 AM   #34
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Pelican View Post
Faced with this choice we did not cut the hull. Replaced each 300 gallon tank with two 110 gallon tanks. Love the ability to control the fuel storage with four tanks.

As to the second tank in your case, our story is a good lesson. Starboard tank leaked. Decided to replace both tanks without seeing a leak on port side. After replacing starboard tank went to remove the plywood covering the port tank and the port tank split along a rust seam releasing the three inches of water we had used in flushing the tank of diesel. Glad that didn't happen underway with a couple of hundred gallons of diesel.

The PO of our KK42 cut out the black iron tanks with a saws all and replaced with one 200 and one 180 gal on each side. Replacement material was aluminum. The engine room is as dry as a bone and I doubt that there would be a corrosion issue anytime soon on the tanks. The PO also put in a fuel polishing system. Once the fuel levels are low enough, I move fuel from tank to tank to "polish" all remaining fuel at least once a year. I also keep track of the age of fuel, ensuring the older fuel is in the forward tanks from which the engine draws fuel.
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1432990792.464266.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	29.1 KB
ID:	40591

Racor 900's and a fuel polishing system.
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1432990859.060795.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	28.2 KB
ID:	40592


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 12:16 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
ragin cajun's Avatar
 
City: Lafayette, LA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: presently boatless
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
IN a steel vessel , chopping a hole makes sense ,in GRP to me its insanity.Criminal.

I would have the tanks chopped out piece by piece , and install as many plastic tanks as required., with one real metal fuel tank per side.

The big advantage (besides cost and structural problems) is the tanks can be only filled as required.

Sitting with huge tanks watching bugs grow or ashphalting is not fun.

By installing a marine furl tank on either side ,(if there is room) and having boxes of fuel to refill the tank underway you have an ideal cruising setup.

As good as a day tank, but easier to service.

The only fuel aboard would be in the marine tank , where water can easily be removed , and the fuel boxes would be filled before any long trip.

There are many differences between a marine fuel tank and a box of fuel , that have been covered many times, in the archives.
Trying to digest all of these great recs over night, I first looked realistically at the types of cruising I'll be doing. 99.99% of the time it will be day cruising from marina to marina with a few anchorages every now and then along the Gulf coast from N.O. to Destin areas. Maybe a crossing to Tarpon Springs down the road. Fuel burn would be 100 gallons a day at most. FF makes a huge point in all that fuel sitting in tanks going downhill in quality. I would much prefer to use fresh fuel on each trip then keeping fuel in tanks for months at a time. Multiple smaller tanks with a 75 gallon main fuel tank on each side makes great sense. Would be hard to burn that much fuel even in 2 days cruising at 8 knots. I do not run those cats at WOT. Keeping a few smaller transfer tanks would not be used hardly at all. Making a smaller main tank should make it easier to install without tearing up my boat or engines. Granted the access to the old tanks is very tight however both ends of the tanks are clearly exposed. Just need a small young person to get in there and cut away!

Thinking about space in the engine room the aft section behind the trannies has a shelf all across the beam of the boat. On it are the 2 starting batteries which can easily be moved to their original spot in front of the engines. There is the hot water heater in the center. This can easily be moved to either side leaving me with over 9ft x 2ft of shelf space with 3 ft of height. I could condemn both saddle tanks, build 2 90 gallon tanks set on that shelf. Gives me 160 gallons of usable fuel. I do have an aluminum 100 gallon reserve tank forward of the engine room set beneath the galley center line. Has a transfer pump and fill on deck. This hooks to the port tank with an equalizing fuel line between the saddle tanks. I've never used this tank because I've never needed to burn 400 gallons of fuel. Seems thi can give me even more options.

Thanks for all of these helpful replies. Probably use recs from a bunch of these posts!

I really, really don't want to cut the sides of my boat.......
ragin cajun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 12:56 PM   #36
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
I have read several posts on first page of this thread but not all in the thread... so what I mention may have been already stated.

Seems you know that leak is approximately mid high on hull side of tank... odd location to say the least! I'd first get both tanks fully inspected to learn general condition. If the condition showed replacement was in order you unfortunately have expensive and time consuming choices to make.

But - if not too bad a prognosis, i.e. that the tanks in general should have years of usefulness remaining... I would guess that a seam badly welded from factory let loose or that something in that location had for years been hitting or rusting the tank and it ruptured. In that case I would determine exactly where the rupture is and would think seriously of cutting small hole in hull side for repair. Hole may not need to be more than a few inches to a foot round or square. FRP repair would be minimal and hull integrity would remain the same.

You should be able to get a visual on the tank's actual offending location onto computer screen via flexible extender arm cameras.

Best luck!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 07:53 PM   #37
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 997
I had a friend that had his tanks lined with something, his description sounded a lot like what is in this thread.
Diesel fuel tank repair - internal coating
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 08:27 PM   #38
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragin cajun View Post
I really, really don't want to cut the sides of my boat.......
I agree, last resort imo, exhaust every other financially and physically reasonable possibility before you do that.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 08:42 PM   #39
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet steadysailer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
The PO of our KK42 cut out the black iron tanks with a saws all and replaced with one 200 and one 180 gal on each side. Replacement material was aluminum. The engine room is as dry as a bone and I doubt that there would be a corrosion issue anytime soon on the tanks. The PO also put in a fuel polishing system. Once the fuel levels are low enough, I move fuel from tank to tank to "polish" all remaining fuel at least once a year. I also keep track of the age of fuel, ensuring the older fuel is in the forward tanks from which the engine draws fuel.
Attachment 40591

Racor 900's and a fuel polishing system.
Attachment 40592


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

That's a really nice, clean, well organized ER. Congrats.
cardude01 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 02:07 AM   #40
Veteran Member
 
City: Laidley
Country: Queensland
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 91
X2. J D Cave.

That is Beautiful, if that were mine I would want to work a long time down there just enjoying the surroundings and listening to great music.

Regards.

David.
__________________

Manly Q. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012