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Old 05-27-2019, 02:04 PM   #41
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water in fuel

I knew as soon as I saw the fuel fills what kind of boat it was.I have a 1981 MS 1 . You can stick the tanks from the fills. get some water paste and stick the tank. to the bottom. You will need something a little flexible. this will tell you if & how much water you have in the tank. You should be able to suck most of it out. It's the place to start.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:10 PM   #42
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water in fuel

The fills are raised on the deck, not much chance of getting water in that way. caps should have O rings ,should be able to match them up at a good auto store.Good luck
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:01 PM   #43
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There are sensors that can be added in a filter housing that detect water in the fuel and sound an alarm.

I doubt it's the auto diesel. I use it when ever I get access to a dock a fuel truck can use. Auto diesel is in my boat now.

If your cap doesn't fully cover the slot in the fill neck, water could enter from deck wash downs or rain. Since you're not using the cap chain I'd fill the slot or get another type of deck fill. A gallon of water in a 2.5 hour run is a lot more that I've ever seen. And I've been my own captain since 1961. But most of those years were using a diesel much better than today's. Even so, I never have fuel problems.
Your main engine (Perkins?) doesn't return much fuel to the tank so it won't polish fuel enough while running.
If you add a tee after the Racor and add a pump to move fuel from the main fuel line to the return line you can polish the fuel. You'll need a valve at the tee and a pump that will deliver 25 gallons/hr. or more. You can run the pump while running the main if it has valves. You may need to use a 3x dose of a good conditioner/biocide to clean the tanks.

My Racor 900s have a 2 micron element and get changed at about 500 hours. My mains alone pump 70 gallons/hr and return 60+ to the tank. Do the math. I get less than an shot glass of water in a month of heavy running, but eyeball the filter bowls every day. I use Archoil AR6200, but have also used Algae-X with good results.
Pump (or one like it) in the pic is about $20 on ebay and rated at 35 gallons/hr.



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Old 05-27-2019, 05:03 PM   #44
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Now for my $0.02 worth.

I agree that your fuel contamination probably came from the filler tube. The slot screams "leak point" to me. I'd replace it asap. Then I would look into adding a fuel polishing system, possibly adding another set of Racors. Anything to keep your fuel clean, because it's d@mned expensive if you don't.



I had a fuel contamination issue about 2 years ago. I took on 180G of diesel of which ~20G was river water (brackish). I didn't know anything was wrong until the engines quit. 2 International 9.0L diesels 3600Hrs ea. aboard a '82 Carver 3607. The engines tried to burn the water and superheated it into steam. This steam melted the rubber exhaust hoses on both engines right at the end of my risers. The bilges couldn't keep up with 2 engines dumping their exhaust cooling water into the bilge. We took on ~14inches of water in 10 minutes. The spray from the water killed both alternators, one starter, all 16 injectors and a rebuild on both injector pumps. Fortunately we were able to start our generator and run an emergency pump to keep us afloat. We made it to a haulout and began the repair process. ~$8000 in damage so far with me doing all the work. I have received $5200 back from a lawsuit filed by the Captains against the Marina. Doesn't help much, but it is something, one couple lost their 2014 70ft Viking. Most insurance won't cover bad fuel damage, since it is the Captains responsibility to obtain good fuel.



My insurance says that they won't cover contaminated fuel unless it is checked for contamination everytime.



Their Procedure that I was given is:

Pour an amount of fuel of no less than 1 gallon into a clear container
Allow to fuel settle for at least 15 minutes
Check for fuel contamination having settled to the bottom of container
If contamination exists then fuel is unacceptable.


Does ANYONE actually do this?!?


My solution is radical. Due to the amount of damage, age of the boat, my skill set, how much my wife and I like the size and layout of Star, and that we own her. We're going to get her to our home port of Baltimore and gut her. New wiring, plumbing, better fuel handling system, active fuel polishing system, new fuel, water & waste tanks, floor framing and decking, add propane, hard bimini over the aft deck, radar arch, hoist for dink, remove all the carpets and replace it with hardwood, etc. A TON of work.
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:21 PM   #45
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OK, never had major fuel issues (thank god) and not a fuel expert but noticed that everyone has focused on water in fuel. What if the fuel purchased at local gas station was in fact gasoline and not diesel? Does gasoline separate out similar to water in the filters? Would it allow the engines to continue to operate without shutting down?
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:25 PM   #46
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A friend of mine once had an engine stall in his single engine trawler while maneuvering in a marina due to water in the tanks, and he ended up with his bow pulpit mounted anchor through the side of a sailboat which was in a cradle at the side of the wall he ran into. Coincident to this stall, his Borg Warner transmission fell off the back end on his Lehman 120 into the bilge. True story.

It was discovered that his decks leaked onto the tops of his tanks which rotted allowing water in every time it rained or spray got on the decks. You might want to pressure test your tanks.

Parker sells the modified bowls for their Racor filers which allow you to mount water detectors to them. They also sell the alarm circuit to make it all work.

I would not own a diesel boat without some sort of water alarm for the fuel system. My current Yanmar has such an alarm screwed into the bottom of the engine-mounted fuel filter.

Speaking of alarms, I wonder if the casualty to the exhast system mentioned above would not have been detected in the early stages with a simple Borel exhaust heat sensor/alarm? Hopefully, the water-in-fuel alarm would have activated well before that, but I have both alarms and the accompanying peace of mind.
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:57 PM   #47
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Thank you again everyone for your posts.
I’ve assembled all the parts for a liquid extraction rig similar to that shown by lepke on his reply. I’ll use 3/8 ID PEX tubing instead of copper, plus a clear inline filter.
Scary stories have me committed to getting every drop possible.
What ever I can’t get I’ll trust the RACOR will get eventually with wave action mixing unreachable water into fuel a little at a time, over time.
Will also look into water in diesel filter alarm and watch filter like a hawk for a long while until I’m once again comfortable.
Will report back.
Again, many thanks.
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Old 05-27-2019, 05:58 PM   #48
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Forget to mention, definitely water as I froze a sample as suggested.
Cheers!
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Old 05-27-2019, 08:00 PM   #49
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My vote is with Tomas and Syjos. Let us know the outcome.
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Old 05-28-2019, 05:31 AM   #50
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"Does ANYONE actually do this?!?"

Probably not , however a few folks will use a Baha filter for the first 5-10 min of a fill, and if no water is found will fill directly.

I have found dirt at times , small water at other times.

Rybovitch used to make Monel deck filters , but WOW! were they pri$y.
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Old 05-28-2019, 06:02 AM   #51
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SKS
Just wanted to confirm you are on the right track w good advice and with due diligence should be fine.

A few yrs back I had somewhere around 5-10 gal water in my 250 gal tank. Won't get into details how but my fault and realized it immediately so never ran the eng.
I could not (easily) get at the top of my tank to use a dip tube. After borrowing a fuel pump from my yard I disconnected my fuel supply (very near bottom aft of tank) and began draining into 5 gal buckets. Continued as long as a noticable amount of water present. I was able to separate out the water amazingly well by decanting off the diesel. An oil pad worked well enough to pick up minor amounts of diesel off the top of an open bucket. Separated diesel was saved and given to my buddy that burns recycle oil for winter heat.
An off line separating filter was hooked up to the pump and returned via my deck fill and I pumped until negligible mats of water were being removed.
Hooked up supply to Racors and ran engine at dock then out on the water monitoring water separation closely and draining as needed. With my pickup at aft of tank getting the bow up while running "helped" pick up more water.
When we headed out for a cruise I monitored Racor periodically to establish a rough idea of need for draining (I could drain mine underway at idle w admiral at the helm).
My drain frequency decreased steadily and got to daily after some steady running. I changed Racor elements and checked 1-2 x day but starting getting very little water.
Bottom line I found the Racors work well and do their job... at least if one doesn't overwhelm them.
By using the tube you should be able to accomplish the initial removal fairly easily... especially If you can list the boat and remove from a tank corner.
Above provided simply as a confirmation that while somewhat arduous the process works and can work successfully.
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:28 AM   #52
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Thanks for the encouraging words Bacchus.
I bought a 12v fuel pump similar the the one shown in the post by Lepke.
With luck it will be able to “lift” the water/fuel about 3-4 feet. If that works (fingers crossed) I’ll get what I can until no water shown on Kolor Cut paste.
Then, as you posted, let the Recor do it’s thing, but with a watchful eye.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:07 AM   #53
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water in fuel

As I said in my last post, this MS does NOT have a flush fuel fill, it is on a raised mount, and has about a 1in male nipple coming out of that, ! then a proper CAP female thread with a O ring inside, The paper gasket is NG, but still should not let water in unless the deck was under water ! but IF the water did find it's way in , you can still stick the tank through the fill caps, and if you do find water you can suck it out through the fill cap.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:19 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardschmidt2759 View Post
As I said in my last post, this MS does NOT have a flush fuel fill, it is on a raised mount, and has about a 1in male nipple coming out of that, ! then a proper CAP female thread with a O ring inside, The paper gasket is NG, but still should not let water in unless the deck was under water ! but IF the water did find it's way in , you can still stick the tank through the fill caps, and if you do find water you can suck it out through the fill cap.

What about that slot in the side of the fuel fill? That looks like it is just begging for water intrusion given any type of heavy rain, let alone snow.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:24 AM   #55
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Someone said it was for the keeper chain so the nozzle could go in... I have chains on my caps and the nozzles go in fine with the chains in place, so I have no clue why they would do that except maybe they were in league with Racor to sell filter elements.
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Old 05-28-2019, 01:51 PM   #56
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water in fuel

I've had my mainship for 15 years stored outside year round,decks have been awash many times. never had a drop of water in fuel. but I will say that I buy my fuel on land, a friend has a pick up with 100 gal tank. fill up at dock. maybe he just got some bad fuel, but still can be sucked out from fuel fills.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:33 AM   #57
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UPDATE
All the input from your posts well most helpful. I’m very grateful.
I’ve (hopefully) attached photos and a video showing extraction set up and results. I’ll continue and eventually finish when I get more inline fuel filters.
It’s going to be tedious and time consuming but I expect satisfactory results.
With any possibility of intrusion via deck fills corrected, I hope this is a “one-off”.
I will however make a tank dip with Kolor Kurt, a regular practice.
Thank you again everyone!
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:38 AM   #58
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:53 AM   #59
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SORRY, I can’t figure out a way to post short video.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:26 AM   #60
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Quote:
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Algae will grow at the water fuel interface.
Algae deeds light to grow...bacteria doesn't. Just saying.
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