Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-14-2012, 09:19 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Prince Rupert,BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Salty Bear
Vessel Model: Ta Yang Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
Fiberglassing and epoxy

We are currently refitting our older trawler. We are building new deck beams in a built up "glue-lam" configuration and will be putting fiberglass cloth and polyester resin over top the new deck head. Does anybody know where I can get any information on compatability of polyester resin and "System Three G2" epoxy?
__________________
Advertisement

Salty Bear II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 09:51 PM   #2
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,495
RE: Fiberglassing and epoxy

WEST probably has information on this, but they are perfectly compatible, in my experience. * Epoxy will stick to pretty much anything without reaction.
__________________

Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 10:30 PM   #3
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,872
RE: Fiberglassing and epoxy

System 3 mfgr. should be consulted for a definitve answer.
My understanding is epoxies will stick to polyester resin and do it well.
That is NOT the case in reverse though.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 04:51 AM   #4
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,961
Fiberglassing and epoxy

Get a copy of "Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction", they are the creators of the West system and have a very comprehensive book. Almost all of the suppliers of epoxy have a free manual online also. System 3 and* Raka cruising are 2 that come to mind.


-- Edited by Sailor of Fortune on Wednesday 15th of February 2012 05:52:16 AM
Sailor of Fortune is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 05:24 AM   #5
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,904
Fiberglassing and epoxy

Quote:
Salty Bear II wrote:
We are currently refitting our older trawler. We are building new deck beams in a built up "glue-lam" configuration and will be putting fiberglass cloth and polyester resin over top the new deck head. Does anybody know where I can get any information on compatability of polyester resin and "System Three G2" epoxy?
*Best to go straight to the manufacturers of the resins you are using.* The biggest deal is curing.* Unless done curing...most resins aren't compatable (going to bond well)*and painting has issues with them too when they are still in the process of curing and they still need prep before anything is put on them.

When warmer weather hits NJ...I'll be layng a new decks (already have the teak off the fly bridge) and I'll be putting* several coats and at least one layer of glass on my entire bottom before the Interprotect barrier coating system.* I'll be using all epoxy to hold everything together but may use a polyester resin just for covering the plywood on the decks.

I not worried about the poly sticking to too much as I probably will go back and filet the edges of the poly glassed ply to the vertical structures of the boat to seal/keep'em down.

As long as it all cures OK...I'm not worried about the 2 different resins or whose they are.



-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 15th of February 2012 06:27:01 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 15th of February 2012 06:28:10 AM
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 09:32 AM   #6
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
RE: Fiberglassing and epoxy

Just remember what C lectric said. Polyester or vinylester*will not stick to epoxy.

SD
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 02:20 PM   #7
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,904
RE: Fiberglassing and epoxy

Quote:
skipperdude wrote:
Just remember what C lectric said. Polyester or vinylester*will not stick to epoxy.

SD
*West system says that gel coat will and if it will...then polyester will.* I think the trick is to get the epoxy "absolutely cured", cleaned, preped and a good mechanical bond and it will work for light duty/cosmetic work...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 07:21 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Datenight's Avatar
 
City: Noank, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Datenight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 415
RE: Fiberglassing and epoxy

Quote:
Salty Bear II wrote:
We are currently refitting our older trawler. We are building new deck beams in a built up "glue-lam" configuration and will be putting fiberglass cloth and polyester resin over top the new deck head. Does anybody know where I can get any information on compatability of polyester resin and "System Three G2" epoxy?
*Salty,

I know you asked about System Three. I can't answer that but can tell you from my experience in the same project that WEST will work.

Rob

37' Sedan
Datenight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 08:50 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 39
RE: Fiberglassing and epoxy

Back in the '80's I owned the second largest contract FRP molding company in Florida.

We made hundreds of hulls and decks for dozens of boat builders - from liferaft containers to 55 ft sailboats. In the good times, when we were smoking along I was buying 10 55 gal. drums of polyester resin a week.

Good times! I sold the business decades ago.

Since then the total number of times I have used polyester resin = 0.

Boatbuilders use polyester because it works well in a E or S glass matrix laid up in a contact mold, and because it's relatively cheap.

Polyester resin is not a glue. Bonds between polyester and plywood will always fail as any Taiwanese boat owner can tell you.

My shop was temperature and humidity controlled. I cringe when I see someone guesstimating the polyester catalyst with a squeeze bottle outdoors.

Use epoxy for every part of your project. The additional cost will end up as a small item in the final bill. It will last a whole lot longer, and you'll sleep better!

This advice is worth what you paid for it, and no doubt other members will have stories about how they have used polyester successfully. Good for them, but I would not buy their boat.

Mike
Palm Coast FL.

*
pull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 05:38 AM   #10
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
RE: Fiberglassing and epoxy

"Polyester or vinylester will not stick to epoxy."

Actually it does not stick very well to polly unless it is uncured , or very green.

THe USCG requires a polly laminate to be ground to 85% clean glass showing if more than a specific numbers of hours have passed.

SO the USCG is hoping the new polly will get enough clean glass to grab on to create the "secondary"bond.

Epoxy is far better at this , BUT be wary the hardner in most epoxies is unfriendly to skin contact.

Your allergy will build as more contact is made.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 06:23 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
SeaMoose's Avatar
 
City: Anchor Pointe, Ohio
Vessel Name: Sea Moose
Vessel Model: 1976 34' D/C Taiwanese Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 136
"Your allergy will build as more contact is made"

Absolutely and what ever you do, don't clean epoxy off your skin with solvent, this drives it into the bloodstream faster. Let it dry first...
SeaMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 08:03 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
HeyJude's Avatar
 
City: Boerne, Tx
Country: USA
Vessel Name: HEY JUDE
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 36 Manatee #46
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 220
Get a copy of "Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction", they are the creators of the West system and have a very comprehensive book.

I believe this link is the book referred to....

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...k%20061205.pdf
HeyJude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #13
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,904
While the West System Book is great for West system epoxy and general working tips....make sure you talk directly to the Epoxy manuafacturer or distributer for specifics.

I have been working with Epoxy a lot lately and for over 10 years on a regular boat repair basis now. Not building a composite boat but have gone through 15 gallons of the stuff in the last 6 months on my trawler alone. While I'm careful, I'm not a fanatic...not all people become sensitized with moderate exposure but some after just a few times get rashes I wouldn't wish on anyone.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 06:48 AM   #14
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
While Epoxy is a great glue for laminating ,,,

to create things like deck beams PLL will do fine as will many of the white glues that are waterproof.

Titebond III or similar .

NO sense in triggering the epoxy allergy's if its not required.Or paying the bucks.

GRP repair ,its epoxy or don't bother.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 02:57 PM   #15
Guru
 
Carolena's Avatar
 
City: DC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carolena II
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 32/34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMoose View Post
"Your allergy will build as more contact is made"

Absolutely and what ever you do, don't clean epoxy off your skin with solvent, this drives it into the bloodstream faster. Let it dry first...
Obviously, wear gloves and keep chaning them before they are torn (in my experience, nytrile last a bit longer than latex). As for uncured epoxy, straight white vinegar is great for cleaning up before it cures. I've stopped using acetone when I get a spill on the deck and now just use vinegar.
Carolena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolena View Post
As for uncured epoxy, straight white vinegar is great for cleaning up before it cures. I've stopped using acetone when I get a spill on the deck and now just use vinegar.
Great tip! Welcome aboard.
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Epoxy Polyamide Paint Bluetide General Maintenance 3 01-06-2012 03:53 PM
best epoxy wood to fiberglass? Woodsong General Discussion 9 01-03-2011 09:47 AM
What finish over epoxy plugs? Keith General Discussion 10 06-04-2010 07:28 AM
Epoxy Questions Forkliftt General Maintenance 25 05-03-2010 11:44 AM
Epoxy vapor problem Mama Cat General Maintenance 13 08-11-2008 06:09 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012