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Old 01-01-2018, 06:14 PM   #1
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epoxy+varnish over old rough teak?

I saw a video from boat works today where he epoxied some wood and varnished over it .I have bought the materials. but I'm wondering if anyone else has tried it .
I have sanded all I care to on the mast and boom they are still rather white .will this improve when I put the coating on?
I also brought home the bow raised floor panels. they feel weak but are not broken . wood is warn down. will epoxy stiffen them up? they look like they will be impossible to sand in the small square holes . any suggestions would be appreciated .
I also have the old dried out fly bridge steps here also is this approach going to make the super slick to stand on.

thanks
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:48 PM   #2
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:32 PM   #3
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"Where he epoxied some wood and varnished over"


Forgive me, I would have thought just the reverse. Several coats of varnish and then the epoxy over that.

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Old 01-01-2018, 10:45 PM   #4
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No the epoxy will break down from UV without varnish over it. I sanded my swim platform and used a 1/2” belt sander in the gaps. Worked very well but you have to be careful as it will eat the wood quickly if you are not careful. A coating of epoxy will not strengthen the wood without glass.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:46 PM   #5
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Itís not uncommon to varnish over epoxy. Epoxy bonds well with the wood but doesnít have very good UV resistance. The varnish actually protects the epoxy.
This link should take you to a photo of a canoe I helped build. It was covered with light fiberglass cloth and epoxy. We then put varnish over everything.
https://jmlynn.smugmug.com/Boats/Cedrus-Marie/i-b5D2tcP

Epoxy resin alone willl not make your floor panels stronger.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
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"Where he epoxied some wood and varnished over"


Forgive me, I would have thought just the reverse. Several coats of varnish and then the epoxy over that.

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Okay, I found the video:
Novel approach. Would like to have been introduced to this process years ago as I have had and yet do, owned wood boats with tons of varnish surface. Matter of fact, this fall completely redid a Norwegian Rana Skiff that is of pine and all varnish inside/outside. I applied 12 coats of gloss spar varnish. As expected, the finish is beautiful to behold, however, the application as shown in the video holds merit in terms of a really good waterproof seal on the pine prior to the varnish, not being as water resistant.
This site is a real find and thank you for that for sure. I have book marked it for all future subjects on fiberglassing repairs and such.

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Old 01-02-2018, 07:23 AM   #7
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I did not watch the video but on the GB site, ages ago, the best solution to varnish teak was to first use CPES, or clear penetrating epoxy sealer then varnishing over it. Some said to not let the cpes completely dry (it uses a catalyst) and put the first coat of varnish on. You realize that you need at least 6 coats of varnish? Anyway, the more the merrier and plan to put one coat on a year and you will rarely if ever have to strip it.

It’s water penetration or uv that breaks down varnish. The cpes solves the water part and the uv is solved by annual coats with light preparation such as a scotchbrite pad. I really liked Le Tonkinoise varnish, it has no solvents but varnish is like anchors...
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:37 AM   #8
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I did just that on most of the interior teak parts of a rebuild I did a number of years ago. Used semi-gloss varnish. Had no issues.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:44 AM   #9
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I would agree that a penetrating epoxy would be a better base. With regular epoxy if you ever have to strip it you will curse the day that you put it on.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:45 AM   #10
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There is an extensive thread I read on woodenboat forum (sorry no link) regarding using varnish over epoxy. Opinion are mixed and some people mentioned that there is very little value to epoxy the wood before varnishing as applying multiple coat of varnish would have the same protective effect.

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Old 01-02-2018, 08:01 AM   #11
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FYI: A friend used epoxy on his cap rails and exterior teak then finished with Cetol Light. The finish failed within a year including the epoxy. He talked to the epoxy manufacturer, MAS, “Our epoxy is not comparable with Cetol”.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:24 PM   #12
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Thanks everyone for your input. I guess I should have asked before I bought the 207 hardener .a may try to put some material on the bottom of the floor grate . I bought two quarts of pedit varnish .I guess that won't make it far. Is there anything wrong with the 1015 and 2015 varnish. I was hoping for a long lasting solution for the mast because it looks like it will be a pain to work on while it's up. Thanks again for the suggestions .I don't have a clue what I am doing.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:16 PM   #13
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Epoxy with varnish over has been my standard way for many years. Epoxy alone will degrade from UV light, but with a varnish with UV blockers works fine. For raised floor panels, that I call deck grates, I seal the wood with diluted epoxy. Then spray paint the bottom and square insides red. Resand any top over spray, seal, then 2 coats of West Systems Epoxy with 207 Special Clear hardener. To make a sealing epoxy, I use West 2333N Epoxy Reducer, a little goes a long way.
It makes a nice looking deck grate. The varnish is several coats, but will give the deep look of a dozen coats when over 2 coats of epoxy.
I've seen a set of directions at either Gougeon Brothers, Inc. or https://www.westsystem.com/ some years ago.
I get my WS resin at Discount Marine Supplies offers quality boating supplies & marine supplies for boaters and sailboat owners.. Currently $80/gallon.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:20 PM   #14
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Lepke, I’ll bet that’s gorgeous! I used to just soak my grates in Seafin or similar but I’ll bet yours is much nicer. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:32 PM   #15
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With west system 105 resin + 207 hardener, thin to milk consistency with MEK solvent. This makes the CPES referred to above. 1 or 2 coats to saturate the wood, then let it dry for a week. The epoxy will out gas for that long, those fumes need to be gone before overcoating with 6 or so coats of UV protecting varnish. However, if those are grates I see on the picture that you walk on, I'd sand the wood bright and only apply Cetol. Much easier to keep looking good.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:30 PM   #16
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thanks for the new responses I have some unopened mek (I was suppose to re glue a dingy 5 years ago) ,I don't have the west system reducer but don't mind getting it. here is a link to the listing of my boat before I bought it .you can see how bad the wood is . the grates are from the pulpit area. it was the most of a project boat that the wife would sleep on.
Windswept Yacht Sales (Sarasota, FL)
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timb View Post
thanks for the new responses I have some unopened mek (I was suppose to re glue a dingy 5 years ago) ,I don't have the west system reducer but don't mind getting it. here is a link to the listing of my boat before I bought it .you can see how bad the wood is . the grates are from the pulpit area. it was the most of a project boat that the wife would sleep on.
Windswept Yacht Sales (Sarasota, FL)
I've never used West reducer, but suspect it would be MEK by another chemical name. If the grates on horizontal, just sand them and give them three coats of Cetol. Annual recoating will keep them looking nice. Epoxy with varnish over is going to give you maximum longevity of the varnish for other bright areas.

One more thing - MEK dissolves foam brushes, so use a bristle brush for application of the thinned epoxy. Throw aways are best even though they shed bristles like crazy.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:20 PM   #18
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I've done a lot of this varnish-over-epoxy. Everything from a whole Flying Dutchman sailboat, to tillers, to a sailboat sole, to many countertops, a laundry room floor, shower door including frame and sill.

Plusses include: the epoxy is very low permeability, thus seals the wood, and the varnish has a great primer. You can get a perfectly flat grain-free appearance.

Negatives include:
1. Corners tend to be more thinly coated and more prone to UV and physical damage. And the coating is of course harder to renew since you have to remove the varnish at the repair and repair the epoxy before revarnishing.
2. Dings and damage out in the 'field' have the same repair issue as above.
3. This 'epoxy seals' business only works if the wood is 'encapsulated'. If moisture can get under the epoxy, it will lift just as badly. Impermeable surface treatments can only survive if the the wood is completely coated. That's supposed to be the plus of Cetol and similar coatings.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
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No the epoxy will break down from UV without varnish over it. I sanded my swim platform and used a 1/2Ē belt sander in the gaps. Worked very well but you have to be careful as it will eat the wood quickly if you are not careful. A coating of epoxy will not strengthen the wood without glass.
comodave ,
I have a 1/2 belt sander it takes 1/2 x12 belts it's like new .I just dug it out and tried it .it breaks the belt (at the seam) every time I run it .so I ether have too much air pressure of the belts are so old the splices are going bad. i'm guessing it has been laying around for 6 years. where did you buy your belts from ? what grit ?and do you remember the air pressure you used .

thanks everyone I'm really confused now but I have time to think and sand because I can't keep my garage warm enough to do any coatings.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
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comodave ,
I have a 1/2 belt sander it takes 1/2 x12 belts it's like new .I just dug it out and tried it .it breaks the belt (at the seam) every time I run it .so I ether have too much air pressure of the belts are so old the splices are going bad. i'm guessing it has been laying around for 6 years...
Try installing the belts the opisite way. You need to have the belt going in the direction so that it wonít peel the seam. Donít ask me how I know.
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