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Old 11-17-2011, 06:13 AM   #21
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Dripless recommendations?

Quote:
FF wrote:
The big advantage to the modern material in the stuffing box is the style of failure.

Should the packing wear , it will drip a bit.

Should the bellows rupture the inflow is beyond most electrical pumps to clear.

Big difference!
*That was always my arguement for traditional...but is the rupturing of the bellows any different than failure of the traditional box rubber hose?

Granted the traditional is heavy duty and doesn't really do anything than sit there...

On a dripless...by the time you need to replace the wear ring only a fool wouldn't replace the bellows too if it were a decade or so old.* My guess is a lot of traditional types would put off replacing the hose till there was a need or it looks so bad it makes you shiver.

Both failures would stink and I'm guessing there is a chance a dripless would be more prone to problems but after running one for a decade*in an assistance towing shamrock...they take incredible abuse without "major" failure.*



-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 17th of November 2011 07:14:28 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 17th of November 2011 07:14:48 AM
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:57 AM   #22
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

Quote:
psneeld wrote:FF wrote:
The big advantage to the modern material in the stuffing box is the style of failure.

Should the packing wear , it will drip a bit.

Should the bellows rupture the inflow is beyond most electrical pumps to clear.

Big difference!
*That was always my arguement for traditional...but is the rupturing of the bellows any different than failure of the traditional box rubber hose?

Granted the traditional is heavy duty and doesn't really do anything than sit there...

On a dripless...by the time you need to replace the wear ring only a fool wouldn't replace the bellows too if it were a decade or so old.* My guess is a lot of traditional types would put off replacing the hose till there was a need or it looks so bad it makes you shiver.

Both failures would stink and I'm guessing there is a chance a dripless would be more prone to problems but after running one for a decade*in an assistance towing shamrock...they take incredible abuse without "major" failure.*

*A friend of mine had a bellows fail a few years ago. Neglect on his part yes, but it ruined a lot of stuff on his boat.* First year it was the alternator and starter because they got so rusty they quit working. The next season the insides of his tranny rusted out, so he had to ge that rebuilt. And I'm sure other stuff was corroded badly but he sold the boat before something else let go.

The bellows is nowhere near as robust as a traditional stuffing box hose. Not close.

*
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:19 AM   #23
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

but is the rupturing of the bellows any different than failure of the traditional box rubber hose?

The old rubber hose is 1/2 in or so thick in order to resist the torque from the packing on the shaft.

The bellows MUST flex so it is thin .

Most mfg give specific instructions on bellows replacement , usually every couple of years.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:14 AM   #24
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Dripless recommendations?

*
I know usually the rubber tube on a traditional is much thicker but if it does fail I'm not sure it would be a lot different than a bellows type.
After a decade of running a small fleet of assistance towing vessels with PSS boxes with not sudden failuresand VERY hard useI just wonder how many failures there are and are they any more common than traditional ones.
Ive run a PSS *hard all season where the carbon ring was so worn on the inside I was afraid it would split because it was so close to*the injection barb....it leaked like crazy when running....but not a drop at rest.* An despite a lot of wobbling, years later the bellows still looks new.

*



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:15:28 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:16:20 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:17:01 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:17:48 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:18:19 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:18:44 AM
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:00 AM   #25
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

More than a good point Fred. I have an R&D shaft seal. The PYI seal is not made by PYI. It's made by a British company called R&D that also makes good engine mounts and other products. Try to buy R&D products from R&D. If you deal w PYI and have any troubles you may get verbal abuse beyond anything you've ever imagined from the owner of the company. However he may not be the owner now. But as long as you do'nt deal w him PYI is OK. If I had it to do over I'd install a regular old fashioned packing seal on my boat. I've experienced two OMG we're going to sink moments w the dripless seals and consider them a hazardous peice*of equipment. But for Kieth the dripless may, just may be justifiable. However to keep the boat afloat I needed to get at the seal immediately. I woud'nt even buy a boat w a V drive because of the inaccessibility of that very important shaft seal. But since Keith already has the boat (and I would'nt recommend he sell it for that reason) I'd recommend he install a regular packing seal, watch it closely when it's convenient and trust it in demanding situations when access to the seal would be impossible or nearly so.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:00 PM   #26
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

Eric, what was the nature of the 2 fault you experienced?
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:18 AM   #27
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

When I first bought my boat, my highest priority was to install a 'dripless' PYI unit, as the boat only had an 'old fashioned' packing gland.

But time constraints conspired against me and I was unable to get it done before bringing the boat home, so I settled for installing GFO packing in the 'old fashioned' packing gland.

This actually worked very well for 2 years, I was able to adjust the thing so it would drip maybe a teaspoon of water from a days cruise while underway and none at rest.
I caught the drips in a small bucket which I would empty every week or so if cruising. But I longed for the 'totally Dry bilge' that the packless advertised.

So after 2 years of using the GFO at the next haulout, I installed the dripless unit- I could pretty much get it to stop leaking most of the time, but would still have that teaspoon of water at the end of a day's cruise.

Then I read/heard some of the horror stories of the catastrophic disasters that can happen from the tearing of the bellows etc.

Fortunately, I had saved the 'old fashioned' system, so at the next haul-out I replaced the high tech 'dripless' packing unit with the low-tech gland - still using the formerly installed GFO packing(which is said to never wear out).

So, here I am today 8 years later with the same GFO packing - no adjustments now necessary.

No drips while at the dock, and when cruising the chore of dumping a 1/2 pint of water overboard every week or so is minor.

In my case I would have been happy to skip the 'dripless' exercise entirely.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:38 PM   #28
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

One of the first things I wanted to do with WESTERLY was to get a dry bilge.* The PO had let the housing deteriorate due to poor adjustment to the extent that*new hardware was needed.

The*PSS equipment was installed in 1998.* A new bellows was installed in 2006 on general principles.* The bilge has been dry since original installation and obviously solved a*number of secondary issues.*

A neighbor with a GB42 tried to put one in, but could never get it adjusted properly (too much vibration present), and ended up reinstalling traditional packing assembly.

The installation on my boat put the PSS just aft of the intermediate bearing, the GB42 had no such shaft support and this may have contributed to poor performance due to excessive drive train vibration.

The conclusion is that excellent shaft/propulsion alignment is probably needed for excellent performance of this equipment.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:06 AM   #29
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

I installed Gortex fiber packing in my traditional stuffing box; no leaks and maintenance free.

Highly recommended.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:35 AM   #30
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

I've had the PSS seals on for the past 4 years and have not had a single drip since. At the advice of my mechanic, I added a crossover tube connecting the water lines so I get pressurized water from the operating engine during single engine ops. Haven't needed it since installation, but it's nice knowing I won't have to secure one shaft to prevent rotation when single-engine.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:57 PM   #31
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

I don't understand the quest for the completly dry bilge, it would be impossible on My IG.

The anchor locker drains into the bilge, the pipes running the refridgeration drip condensation, the rudder gland drips water, far too much at the moment, etc.
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:51 AM   #32
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

A "dry" bilge is really simple , purchase a boat that has a bilge well that the water drains to , and use a diaphram pump to keep the water to under 1/2 inch.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:47 AM   #33
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Dripless recommendations?

In my vessel I have four distinct bilge pump areas. Keeping each dry alerts me to any problems. Issues I have found and stemmed very early in the maintenance cycle include a leaking rudder gland, leaking expansion tank, bad cooling hose, bad hydronic heater core, a leak in a deck fill, drip in a water pump, bad exhaust elbow and bad gasket on a sea strainer.

I once had a vessel with an always wet bilge. Every trip required a sleuthing prior to leaving the dock to be sure it was the same old drips and not something new.*As I*venture offshore, a dry bilge is a degree of comfort and safety I have found reassuring. For lake, ICW, Loop or coastal cruising I'm not so fussy.


-- Edited by sunchaser on Sunday 27th of November 2011 08:50:18 AM
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Old 11-27-2011, 03:44 PM   #34
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

Sunchaser makes a good point, in a dry bridge it is easy to spot and trace a leak.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:07 AM   #35
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

in a dry bridge it is easy to spot and trace a leak.

Same with a clean engine
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:30 PM   #36
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RE: Dripless recommendations?

Quote:
FF wrote:
in a dry bridge it is easy to spot and trace a leak.

Same with a clean engine

I have both.* And do my best to keep them that way.* For pride and for the reason you state.
*
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