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Old 08-01-2015, 11:48 AM   #21
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Especially w smaller hoses overtightening is probably common. Not so much to a straight pipe. Small multiple barb fittings may not need any clamp at all depending on how tight a fit it is. If you can barely get the hose on it probably isn't coming off unless internal pressure is considerable.

In the first pic below the fitting in the lower left is w single clamp as the fitting was short. I love these clamps. Get them (not cheap) from a local shop and other than that don't know the source. The size is rather critical unlike the automotive type. I've only purchased small ones for my fuel fittings.

With the automotive type clamps I suspect a better seal can be attained by staggering the screws 180 degrees when two clamps are used. I suspect the hose gets somewhat "puckered" opening the door to possible leakage through the "pucker". Does anybody also suspect this or know anything about it?

Tests have been done, and staggering the clamps does nothing beneficial. Other than in some cases allows you to get the rings of the clamps closer together if need be.
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Old 08-01-2015, 01:42 PM   #22
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If an item can sink your boat , blow up an engine or start a fire, I vote for using the very best methods and materials available. To each their own I suppose.
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:04 PM   #23
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If an item can sink your boat , blow up an engine or start a fire, I vote for using the very best methods and materials available.
If that were the case there wouldn't be many hose clamps sold to boat owners or builders. There are readily available means to connect hoses to fittings that don't involve clamps ... how much are you willing to spend to relieve a small burden of worry?
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:46 PM   #24
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But Rick, I had a surveyor hit me with a deficiency of having Parker 22 series fittings on my FR221, SAE J1942 USCG A1 approved hose on a diesel system in my lazarette (overkill).

Because I didn't use hose clamps...
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:52 PM   #25
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I had a surveyor ...
Need we go any deeper into the subject?
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:10 PM   #26
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Why do clamps fail? Seawater dripping on them maybe? Or mismatched hose to fitting?

When to double clamp seems a common sense issue rather than doing it by rote. Perish the notion of surveyors getting it right.
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:20 PM   #27
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Why do clamps fail?
Clamps fail from being made of low grade metal, being perforated, and exposed to a salt water environment. In some cases, being over tightened. I ran into all of this as I went through my boat and inspected the various fittings, some of which were fine during survey, or were replaced as a result of survey with crappy clamps. I finally just went through a proactively replaced the lousy ones, especially those on critical systems and/or below the water line.

Quote:
There are readily available means to connect hoses to fittings that don't involve clamps ... how much are you willing to spend to relieve a small burden of worry?
Care to elaborate? Yes there are better, and necessary, compression type fittings for fuel and hydraulic hoses, but we're talking water and exhaust. You're free to spend as little as you like if you're feeling lucky, I won't mind unless my tax dollars are needed to save you and/or your boat.
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Old 08-01-2015, 06:46 PM   #28
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Care to elaborate? Yes there are better, and necessary, compression type fittings for fuel and hydraulic hoses, but we're talking water and exhaust.
These work fine for water and wet exhaust hose:

Hydrasearch | Manufacturer of Fluid Systems and Components for Military and Commercial Applications

You can also go with hard piping/tubing and flex sections if you want "the very best."


Quote:
You're free to spend as little as you like if you're feeling lucky, I won't mind unless my tax dollars are needed to save you and/or your boat.
I think you have that backwards, the high risk / low cost option is to use hose and hose clamps. The installation failures that require rescue are often from the use of cheap hose clamps and rotten rubber hoses.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:37 AM   #29
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Angus99, your installation is looking really good!
As to double clamping, I'm with psneeld. I really don't think it's necessary. Any hose that's been clamped for just a few days onto a barbed fitting gets really hard to remove. That said, I do double clamp to keep surveyors happy.
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:47 AM   #30
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.... With the automotive type clamps I suspect a better seal can be attained by staggering the screws 180 degrees when two clamps are used. I suspect the hose gets somewhat "puckered" opening the door to possible leakage through the "pucker". Does anybody also suspect this or know anything about it?
I vaguely recall, years ago, clamps like those depicted being referred to as "Peugeot clamps" as they were used (and presumably made) by Peugeot (who have made many non automotive metal items).
As to staggering, I also understand it to be more effective, if less neat.
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:53 AM   #31
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I suspect that CapBill is right and it probably is just fly shxit. With certain types of hoses it may be applicable though. But if you want to keep a hose connection from leaking you wouldn't use a clamp like a "U" bolt and most clamps on cars and boats aren't entirely unlike a "U" bolt.

Re the super duper high grade "the best that money can buy" is usually silly, a waste of money, not cost effective and perhaps even pretentious. The slotted band clamps are indeed questionable in strength and could sink one's boat. But if not overtightened and replaced often enough so rust is not an issue they are probably fully serviceable within those stated limits. Mine must be SS (except the little guys in my pic) as I don't see any of them rusting, or rusting enough to be an issue. Good enough is .... good enough.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:54 AM   #32
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These work fine for water and wet exhaust hose:

Hydrasearch | Manufacturer of Fluid Systems and Components for Military and Commercial Applications

You can also go with hard piping/tubing and flex sections if you want "the very best."


I think you have that backwards, the high risk / low cost option is to use hose and hose clamps. The installation failures that require rescue are often from the use of cheap hose clamps and rotten rubber hoses.
I never said said anything about using cheap clamps and rotten or cheap hoses, quite the opposite. You seemed to be advocating going cheap, implying there were good cheap alternatives to clamps, so I apologize if I misread you as you misread me.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:18 AM   #33
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George I think you were saying something about using cheap hose clamps. You asked me what my clamps were made of when it's probably obvious they are zinc plated steel. The implication that they were not SS and had no business on a boat. Yes? If not then?
Re the gap below the screw an extension of the band carries over to the other side of the band and can be seen in my pic. Here is a close up for a better view.
I do keep an eye on my plumbing and will replace these when they start to significantly rust.
Edit:
Now that I look at this pic it looks like I overtightened the inbd clamp. Perhaps I had the hose too tight against the hex to start with. And George these clamps are not very strong. They do provide even clamping pressure all around the hose. I tried to get non-barbed fittings but they are hard to find. So I decided light even clamping and the barbed fitting was a good compromise.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:30 AM   #34
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The injection pipes on my engine were plain steel (still are) and one developed a pinhole leak from corrosion under cracked paint a few years back.

That atomized fuel could have been one of the most lethal things that could happen on my boat.

I don't think those pipes are available in stainless...yet Lehman owners live with that possibility every time they run their engines....a very hard to detect but very possible issue.

Not everything on a boat has to be stainless if the design and maintenance is there.

All sorts of dangers lurk in engine rooms...even those with constant vigilance. Some items are compromises in materials, designs or uses....rarely is anything without a potential flaw.

Worry is OK.... if not consuming and keeps you on your risk management toes.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:54 AM   #35
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The jubilee clip, aka the worm gear hose clamp on this side of the pond, was actually designed by a guy on a naval ship who determined that there was a need for a better pipe to hose connection.

Irony.

SAE recognizes 32 different types of them in J1508.

I have them all over my boat, except the fuel and hydraulic lines.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:07 PM   #36
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His design was really a black op to leak the design to the enemy of ALL naval warships....

Recreational boaters!
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Old 08-03-2015, 08:48 AM   #37
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The injection pipes on my engine were plain steel (still are) and one developed a pinhole leak from corrosion under cracked paint a few years back.

That atomized fuel could have been one of the most lethal things that could happen on my boat.

I don't think those pipes are available in stainless...yet Lehman owners live with that possibility every time they run their engines....a very hard to detect but very possible issue.

Not everything on a boat has to be stainless if the design and maintenance is there.

All sorts of dangers lurk in engine rooms...even those with constant vigilance. Some items are compromises in materials, designs or uses....rarely is anything without a potential flaw.

Worry is OK.... if not consuming and keeps you on your risk management toes.
This Lehman 120 owner experienced a cracked steel injection line 20 hours of run time after acquiring the boat. It was a failure that could not have been uncovered in a survey. Just plain bad luck that it did not occur to the PO. The line had been resting against a hose clamp for who knows how long. It could have been for a thousand hours. The vibration apparently work-hardened the metal and it finally cracked spraying diesel fuel 1,600 times per minute. Fortunately, my brother, a Lehman mechanic in a former life, was along for the ride from Palm Coast, FL to our home port near Annapolis and he discovered the problem not long after its occurrence (not a huge amount of diesel had escaped) in doing a routine engine room check. Unfortunately, darkness was approaching and it was obvious that we could not reach our planned destination marina on one engine due to current and the 35 knot wind on our bow.

We tried anchoring but the anchorage that was suggested by the marina was wholly exposed to the wind plus our boat had tremendous windage due to the full canvas enclosure (now mostly gone). We dragged but that may have been to my inexperience. By this time the light was fading rapidly. Fortunately, about a mile off I could see an unlighted face dock. I said to my brother and the Admiral that that was where we are heading. They both said "but we don't have permission". We spent the night at that dock and replaced the offending injector in the morning. We had a full set of spares aboard that came with the boat.

Now, getting that boat tied up that night was another adventure. I mentioned being inexperienced. Imagine an inexperienced captain trying to dock a boat with one engine, a 35 knot wind blowing, and a very swift current along the face dock. We got her tied up but with a tremendous struggle to get the stern against the dock. It sure would have been nice to have known how to employ a spring line to do so.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:33 AM   #38
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I have always double clamped, but the tail on the fitting has to be long enough, I'v had to change a few......Noel S
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:37 PM   #39
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Yes, SS can offer corrosion advantages if your clamps are getting a salt water shower. But SS is not as "strong" as mild steel assuming similar dimensions.

So maybe Eric's galvanized clamp and application is not an issue. Especially if he used quality hose.
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:40 PM   #40
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My former boss was big on using push lock fittings... not USCG approved and he didn't seen to care as he used them on all the non inspected boats....but seem love a better option than clamps...

Wonder what size they go up to?
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