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Old 03-21-2016, 12:04 PM   #1
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Door Panel Delamination

Hi folks,

I am having some delamination in one of the teak ply panels on my aft stateroom door. The previous owner primed and painted all of the exterior bright work, this door included. It appeared that the paint was flaking on the panel, but when I looked closer, it was apparent that the plywood panel was delaminating.

I have two courses of action that I am considering. The first involves removing the panel and replacing it with new wood and trim, then re-painting it to match the rest. I should mention that the boat is in Mexico, so I would have to pre-cut and prime the wood and bring it with me on my next visit.

My second choice is to use penetrating epoxy on the area to stabilize the wood and stop the delamination. Then I can sand it, fill the delaminated area, and prime and paint over that. I know what I SHOULD do, but I really don't want to spend a lot of time on the project at this point. I figure that I can always remove the panel and do it right later.

Comments? Has anybody used the penetrating epoxy on their boat?

Thanks and cheers, Bill
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Old 03-21-2016, 02:01 PM   #2
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Replace the panel

In my experience the permanent repair will actually take less time than "patch and paint method". Show up with the board prepped, remove the keepers and install the new piece. Then quick coat of paint to seal everything up.

With the patch and paint method the area should be dry. Then you epoxy seal, fair, sand, fair again, sand again then paint. If the boat is inside then not too bad but if outside and you have to deal with weather it can turn into a long process.

I find that "shortcuts" often chew up more time than completing the job correctly. I usually will use the shortcut method if it is going to save me $$$$ but this usually involves more time spent on the project.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:31 AM   #3
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I am a firm believer in the done right, done once, but done half azzed, done over philosophy but I am also not anal retentive to the the point I don't realize some things are not worth the effort if the life expectancy exceeds the need. Epoxy is great stuff. and if its painted over, who will know? A picture would be be really helpfull. I once had a balsa cored deck that was rotting and soft. I drilled several holes and filled the void with thickened epoxy. Although not proper fix, it outlasted the boat. So that was a win in my book. Get a chance, send a picture(s). Epoxy is magical stuff.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:21 AM   #4
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The trick is why did the panel delaminate and how far is the real cause spread.

Every inch of teak laminate inside my trawler delaminated. So patch and paint would have been a mistake from the beggining.

Make sure this delamination isnt the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:53 AM   #5
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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your use of the term "delamination", but couldn't you use contact cement to "relaminate" it? The same way you might apply laminate to a counter top?
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Old 03-22-2016, 11:43 AM   #6
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Thanks for the replies. Oddly enough, I do not have a picture of the door. It is on the aft cabin and slants a bit forward at the top. The door has a heavy wood frame with two panels of mahogany ply in the middle. The reason for the delamination I believe, is because the door gets all day exposure to the sun and weather (I have since made a cover for it) and I think some moisture got into one of the seams along the upper panel.

I do agree that I should replace the panel instead of half-assing it, so I am currently searching for some mahogany ply in my area. It looks like this door probably requires more attention than the others due to it orientation to the sun and weather.

Thanks for all the comments.

Cheers, Bill
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:08 PM   #7
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replacing the panel will depend on door construction

Usually the panels in doors are in a grove in the styles and rails of the door frame. Replacing the panel will probably require disassembly of the door frame. If that seems like too much effort, there's nothing wrong with gluing the laminate back together and filling the splits with filler. Just remember if you use epoxy to glue it together you will need to use epoxy filler to fill the splits. Sanding wood and epoxy is difficult because the epoxy is so much harder than the wood. West system has a epoxy wood filler that sands easier to help. Another trick is to paint the entire area to be sanded with epoxy before sanding.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:18 PM   #8
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What a coincidence! I just got off the phone with Scary catching up and talking about my doors and you guys are discussing similar Californian doors on this thread.

I think the lower panel door delam is a typical Californian issue. I hope to resolve mine with CPES, sanding and varnish while painting the exterior lower panel white to match the pilothouse like the later model Californians. I like the look can handle a little less varnish outside!
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Old 03-23-2016, 01:32 AM   #9
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+1 for the epoxy method. You will stabilize the delamination and seal the dado, aka rain gauge. Once sealed, this should buy you allot of time.

Our aft cabin door lives under a sunbrella cover but is to far gone to be cosmetically reclaimed. Since the door is small I'm considering making a new one but that is a project for another day....month....Ok, year!

Wish you success with the project. Please post some pics.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:16 AM   #10
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I guess you have to ask yourself what is the overall delamination picture like...maybe you guys are all thinking of a small limited peeling or splitting....

But no way epoxy would have been the solution in my delamination or many others I have dealt with.

Especially if the plywood is about to let go under the top layer. Glue the one layer down only to have the others delaminate. And no glue will saturate and bond through the layers necessarily, maybe the edges only.

While epoxy fixes is a great choice for some, it can't resolve all delamination issues so without at least a pucture, I can't recommend one procedure over another.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:29 AM   #11
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Since replacing the panel will be difficult because the boat is in Mexico far from your tools and such, I'll bet you could find a good carpenter right there in Mexico who would do the job cheaply and quickly.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:52 AM   #12
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Greetings,
Alas, like so many other listings, not ONE shot of the machinery space(s). The condition of same would indicate to me just how much TLC the boat really needs. If I was in the market, I wouldn't even bother to call.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:34 AM   #13
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Greetings,
Alas, like so many other listings, not ONE shot of the machinery space(s). The condition of same would indicate to me just how much TLC the boat really needs. If I was in the market, I wouldn't even bother to call.
Are you lost, young man? This is the Door Delamination department. Sounds like you want the Too Lazy to Make My Boat Listing Complete department.
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Old 03-23-2016, 12:07 PM   #14
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Here's what mine look like. The stbd door is worse than the port side.

Interior panels of aft doors:







Exterior side of same panels:



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Old 03-23-2016, 09:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montenido View Post
Hi folks,

I am having some delamination in one of the teak ply panels on my aft stateroom door. The previous owner primed and painted all of the exterior bright work, this door included. It appeared that the paint was flaking on the panel, but when I looked closer, it was apparent that the plywood panel was delaminating.

I have two courses of action that I am considering. The first involves removing the panel and replacing it with new wood and trim, then re-painting it to match the rest. I should mention that the boat is in Mexico, so I would have to pre-cut and prime the wood and bring it with me on my next visit.

Thanks and cheers, Bill
This is typical of the Californian exterior doors with insert panels. Except for that insert, the rest of the door is solid wood and no problem. Mine lasted 35 years and finally reached the "Point of no Return" peeling and splintering. I hired a local woodworker. He replaced the two panels by disassembling doors, cut and reinserted new panels, which sits in a channel in the door frame. Screwed the door back together and I did the refinish work which was several coats of Cetol. Cost was $250 for the woodworker..

As someone else mentioned, I'll bet you can do just as well with a local craftsman in Mexico.
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Old 03-24-2016, 08:31 PM   #16
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Thank you all for the continued interest in this thread. My door looks like Al's, but a bit more delamination in one of the corners. If I remember correctly, both sides of the panels have 1/4 round strips to hold in the panels. Maybe they were replaced already at an earlier date? I was going to remove the moldings on the inside only, if possible. Then I was going to install the new panel using new molding, kind of like a window. If the ply is actually bedded in a groove in the frame, then that will be a whole different scenario than what I was planning.

I like the idea of using a local craftsman, as Mexico is full of great woodworkers. I might be leaning back towards the penetrating epoxy and filler to buy some time. I did make a sunbrella cover, which keeps the sun and rain off of the door, but it is a bit late in terms of damage already there. I will take pictures next time I am down there.

As a side note, shopping for replacement wood around here ahs shown that there is mahogany ply available, but not really marine ply. Is this crucial to have marine plywood? I would think so.

Thanks again, and cheers, Bill
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:01 PM   #17
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Thank you all for the continued interest in this thread. My door looks like Al's, but a bit more delamination in one of the corners. If I remember correctly, both sides of the panels have 1/4 round strips to hold in the panels. Maybe they were replaced already at an earlier date? I was going to remove the moldings on the inside only, if possible. Then I was going to install the new panel using new molding, kind of like a window. If the ply is actually bedded in a groove in the frame, then that will be a whole different scenario than what I was planning.

As a side note, shopping for replacement wood around here ahs shown that there is mahogany ply available, but not really marine ply. Is this crucial to have marine plywood? I would think so.
It could have already been replaced once and they may have removed the panel by cutting it out of the door frame and reinstalling a new panel with quarter round to save taking the door apart. In the frame mine looked like quarter round was holding it in, but the door frame actually had a routed edge that gave it that appearance.

Just talked to the guy who did mine and he said an exterior grade ply would be fine. Just needs to be made with waterproof glue. He replaced mine with a grade A/B teak 1/4" ply. Full sheet is $200, but he had enough from a leftover sheet to do it, which kept the price down.
Good Luck
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:39 PM   #18
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Bill, do your interior panels display the tell-tale pattern of Philippine ribbon mahogany like on your interior walls?



If not, they could be teak. I suspect mine are teak as the pattern differs greatly from the mahogany.

Aft Deck Capt in post #9 above made the great point that using the thinned epoxy as a barrier also serves to seal the dato channel which over the years acts like a moisture superhighway to carry the moisture to the edges of the ply panel. Whether the panels are rehabbed or replaced, I'd think sealing that joint is imperative to a long life of the new door.

Personally, I plan a couple coats of CPES followed by numerous (8?) coats of Epifanes for a tough, UV protected finish. If someone convinces me of an all-epoxy product that gives the same results with fewer coats and less maintenance down the road, I'm all ears.
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:31 PM   #19
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Al l, looking at the photos of your doors they appear to be in s a dato and not stopped in the frame. The panels don't look that bad. I think I would try sanding the exterior smooth, pick or cut with a box cutter any loose vyneer off the panel fill the cracks with epoxy filler sand and paint. If you wanted a more permenant solution you could apply a single layer of deck glass fabric with vynilester resin and paint over the panel. I suggest vyinlester resin because it is stickyer than polyester and easier and cheaper than epoxy to work with.
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:18 PM   #20
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Edelweiss,
Thanks for the info and the thickness and type of ply. I'll see what I can find around here. FlyWright, my door panels do not look like the salon walls, so maybe they are teak, which is what Edelweiss had installed on his boat.

Thanks for all the great comments and information.

Cheers, Bill
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