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Old 04-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #21
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Ron and Cyclone,
I think the oil does "degrade" over the winter chemically and can possibly cause etching of metal parts. Otherwise why is it typically done? But I've only heard and read that this is the case.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:12 PM   #22
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Oil doesn't degrade in 6 months or so otherwise buying in bulk would kill mainas, fleet operators, etc...etc...

The engine may pick up moisture...but it will whether empty, new oil, or old oil.

Old oil may have ph problems and may etch...new will not...unless you get a LOT of water in it or something else happens.

99 percent of the boats I know of around me do it in the fall...only a handfull do it again in the spring.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #23
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Wouldn't all the oil be completely back in the pan in a matter of hours? What good does new or old do in there? How many surfaces will it adhere to for the entire winter to provide protection? Would changing the oil and then running it for a little while clean enough of the contaminants off from the previous oil to do any good whatsoever?

I, of course, could be wrong, but I will again, I come back to my synth oil point I made in the other thread, and that point is that my 80's Perkins is a big and stout lump of engine designed for more abuse and life than I will every give it. Even IF etching was happening, would it really affect engine longevity? Especially since I am probably changing oil more often than recommended.

I am not being argumentative, I am honestly trying to understand why these apparent Brahma Bulls of the engine world need to be treated like kittens?

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Old 04-02-2013, 04:32 PM   #24
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Yes etching is bad...especially year after year...

No...some oil stays at least microscopically I guess...that's why thicker dino oils have a better rep for long term storage...even better is a "fogging oil".

yes...yes....and yes..to the other questions

But you are probably correct as it won't matter a hill of beans for the average winterized engine.

Mobil Oil agrees as that was their recommendation to one Q&A...that fall or spring was OK with them...

Like many discussions here...it may be minutia compared to a lot of other things that may be hurting your engine over the life you own it.

But if the choice...I pick fall layup over changing in the spring.

If you really want to do it right..like FF always goes back to...there are long term layup procedures for machinery that have to be better than the just let them sit with new/old oil in them.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:57 PM   #25
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Seems such a waste to put new oil in .... let it sit all winter and then throwing it away. Any opinions? We could do facts later. Or a mix like we usually do.

I've never heard of anyone changing the oil before a winter layup and then changing it again prior to using the boat in the spring/summer. The only reason to change before layup is to prevent contaminated oil from sitting in the engine and on the bearings and such all winter.

As Ron said, clean oil doesn't go bad just sitting there so there is no reason at all to change the new oil out in the spring. You just start up and go boating until it's time for the next winter layup at which point you change the oil prior to the layup.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:14 AM   #26
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Except DD expects an unsealed engine to allow condensation to drip water into the oil passages all the out of service months.

Might make sense to fog the engine then seal it up.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:15 AM   #27
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I agree with those who change before winter, then use that the following season. I suspect you've thrown away a lot of good oil, Eric...sorry...oh, and one other thing. Your idea of changing the oil more often than the filter. Where did that come from? Does not compute for mine. In fact a case could be made for changing the filter once halfway through the season keeping the same oil, in view of the fact that the solid contaminants are filtered out in the filter, and it makes sense to remove it, rather than put clean oil in to run through a contaminated filter, just sayin'...
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:36 AM   #28
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HaHa This is funny.
We all have our own ideas.
But it's not my idea that oil breaks down and becomes undesirable by spring. I've just heard that many times.
And Peter I've never stored a boat through the winter so never thrown out good oil for that reason but changing every 50 to 70 hours I probably throw away good oil that way. Perhaps one of the local TF members would want to get it from me and run it another 50 to 70 hours?
Being single weight that may be an advantage.
This winter is the only winter I've stored a boat and I do intend to throw away the oil ... unless I find that what I recall that I've heard and read is false.
But if I didn't throw away good oil I'd have to throw away bad oil. And if I threw away bad oil that would mean I'd have been running bad oil in my engine.
No I'll stick to changing my 30 weight oil frequently.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:00 PM   #29
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Being single weight that may be an advantage.
What is your married weight advantage?
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #30
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Single weight is the advantage unless your'e paying taxes.

Proper answer would involve TC.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:33 PM   #31
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Eric--- In many decades of dealing with engines--- auto, plane, rail, and boat--- I have NEVER heard or read that clean oil " goes bad" just sitting there. If it did, all oil sold would have a sell-by or use-by date on it. I think you've been taken in by an urban myth.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:47 PM   #32
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Eric--- In many decades of dealing with engines--- auto, plane, rail, and boat--- I have NEVER heard or read that clean oil " goes bad" just sitting there. If it did, all oil sold would have a sell-by or use-by date on it. I think you've been taken in by an urban myth.
Plus as I posted before...many places buy bulk oil dispensed to 100-500 gallon tanks for fleet use....It sits there for many months .

The company that I work for that has an assistance towing fleet, small tug/barge fleet, numerous tractor trailer and dumptruck rigs, a dozen diesel pickups and dozens of small diesel gensets, pumps, light units, etc...etc.

They all get the same bulk 15W40 oil...and during the winter when things get slow....hundreds of those gallons sit until needed in the spring turnover.

Millions of miles, hundreds of thousands of op hours...no oil related issues.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #33
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Marin,
My source or sources may not have been marine. I told my dad that a long time ago and I usually didn't tell dad something I wasn't sure about. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned it. When you change oil the new oil gets mixed w a bit of the old oil so it' instantly slightly contaminated. Oil in 2 strokes mixed w the fuel goes bad. Fuel in a car goes bad. People after the shy part of 100 years go bad. Glass goes bad given enough time. Organic stuff grows in fuel oil. I'm say'in the odds are that lube oil goes bad in the winter given cold temps and humidity that can't be avoided. But I'm not really sure.

Me changing oil really often (especially skipping filters often) is very easy and only takes a few quarts whereas w two LAehmans or similar it's not such a little deal.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:57 PM   #34
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I'm say'in the odds are that lube oil goes bad in the winter given cold temps and humidity that can't be avoided. But I'm not really sure.
Fuel over time is another story, particularly today's fuel. But clean/new lube oil? Based on experience and everything I have learned I would say that on this one, Eric, you are 100% absolutely dead wrong.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:03 PM   #35
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Engine/Motor Oils and Transmission Oils
Although these oils contain high additive contents, they are extremely stable. They may be stored for 5 years under protected conditions without any significant deterioration in performance. However, as the industry is always developing new specifications these oils may be out of date by the time they are fully used.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/FactShe...ing%20Oils.pdf

3-5 years seems to be the concensus....
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:39 PM   #36
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Do you lads consider the cold and a bit damp crankcase coated w contaminated oil on a diesel engine in a boat usually immersed in sea water "under protected conditions"?
I sure don't.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:11 PM   #37
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Do you lads consider the cold and a bit damp crankcase coated w contaminated oil on a diesel engine in a boat usually immersed in sea water "under protected conditions"?
I sure don't.

You seem to be talking about dirty oil, and of course that is contaminated and the contamination may well cause the oil to deteriorate over time.

But that's not what we've been talking about. We've been talking about new oil put in a boat immediately prior to the boat's being laid up for the season. So the oil is not contaminated. As such the clean oil does not deteriorate just sitting there in the engine, or a can, or a jug, or a barrel, or a storage tank. Clean is clean and throwing out new, clean oil at the end of four months or so and replacing it with equally new, clean oil seems sort of stupid to me.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:22 AM   #38
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And I also don''t consider a 6 month layup 3-5 years....
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:33 AM   #39
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"In fact a case could be made for changing the filter once halfway through the season keeping the same oil, in view of the fact that the solid contaminants are filtered out in the filter,"

However much of the engine wear is not caused by the coarse chunks the std oil filter removes , but by the "fines" (tiny as valve grinding compound) that freely circulate in the oil.

Solution ,secondary centrifugal filter to spin them out, by pass filter that is better at removing the fines , (but use a filter not a roll of toilet paper) , OR , simply change the oil.

All modern oil is detergent oil so only change the oil after a long hard run so the chemicals have time and temperature to loosen the collected grunge and capture it in the oil.
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