Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-25-2016, 08:23 AM   #21
Member
 
City: Sandusky
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 17
Something tells me that using a shop vac on flammable liquids is not a good idea.
__________________
Advertisement

vonovik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 08:37 AM   #22
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr./Ms. v. Welcome aboard.
__________________

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 08:53 AM   #23
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
Using a shop vac for gasoline is not a good idea, diesel on the other hand is not as flammable. I've not heard of anyone exploding a shop vac while sucking up diesel. I suppose it "could" happen but for myself the risk is small enough to disregard. Your risk tolerance may be less. And, I use my little cheapo pressure washer everywhere possible. It makes engine room cleanup much easier, and with old LeakTroits its needs serious cleaning.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 09:09 AM   #24
Veteran Member
 
City: Chesapeake Region
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26
Right - shop vac not for gasoline!
Catbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 09:22 AM   #25
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinkleyBoat View Post
Found this in a Google search.
May be helpful.
Oil Solutions Liquid - Oil Solutions International
Good luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinkleyBoat View Post
Check out the video, especially the middle one.
This stuff works and it's pretty cheap.
Demo and Tutorial Oil Spill Clean Up Videos| Oil Solutions

Thanks, pretty impressive. I was at first thinking that'd be nifty for my two mostly inaccessible compartments. Lightly flood, inject some of that stuff in there... But then I'm stumbling over how to blow it into one of those compartments via a single 2" limber hole... and then how to get it out again from both areas afterwards (with only a 2" by 4" gap on the other compartment). Have to think about that some more...

Given that maybe I'm only dealing with a slight residual and odor potential at the bottom of each of those two compartments... Catbird's 409 approach sounds pretty good. Also useful 'cause I can cprobably ome up with a gallon or two of 409 with a quick trip down the street.

I think I might be at the point where I can use a modified version of Fred's suggestion, too: lightly flood an area and let it work for a while, use the shop-vac to suck that up... but then filter that through absorbent pads (in a 5-gallon bucket or some such) so extract remaining oil out of that... so I can just pour the rest overboard. (Maybe slightly easier to do that than to re-route bilge pump discharges...)

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 09:33 AM   #26
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
BTW, perhaps useful to mention more about the original circumstances. The genset in question is a Kohler 8EOZ, powered by a Yanmar 3TNE74. The fuel filter assembly (also called a fuel strainer in one of their docs) has a metal "head" and a screw-on see-through sump with replaceable filter element inside.

The metal "head" looks similar in design/concept to the fuel filter on our JD tractor with a 3TNA72 diesel. The head has two ports. It looks like a single casting (looks like pot metal, to me) BUT... it's not a single casting. The input port, which looks to me to be part of the overall casting, is apparently just press-fitted into the head.

And guess what? It can come loose. And it did. That port piece popped out almost all the way... but unfortunately it was still in just enough to allow the genset to keep running, while at the same time spewing fuel into the sound shield and also into the engine room.

I started the genset, checked for leaks while I was down there for about 5 minutes or so, all good... then I went above to put an electrical load on and intending to let it run for about a half-hour or maybe a little longer. (Not exactly sure how long I ignored it.)

Not sure when exactly the failure happened, but I think I'm up to around 30-35 gallons or so. Could have been immediately after I put the load on? Not sure if that would have affected pump or fuel line pressure... but anyway could have been up to say 45 minutes or so.

The immediate short-term fix will be a new fuel filter assembly, but... I'm feeling a bit snake-bit by the whole thing, just now... and wouldn't mind an eventual solution that won't do the same thing sometime.


I wouldn't mind knowing if this is a common problem, or a very rare occurrence and it was just my turn in the barrel, or what. Don't know if it's a Kohler part, or a Yanmar part (looks like Yanmar to me, but that's just a guess since it looks similar design and metal to the one in the tractor)... and don't know how to find out whether the filter assemblies have a good or bad track record...

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 09:48 AM   #27
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,199
For some limited access bilge spaces I just cut a hole and installed plastic screw in inspection cover. very useful for collecting bilge water as well.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 11:30 AM   #28
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Yeah, I'd like to not have to cut access holes if I can help it... There aren't very many cosmetically friendly places to do that, for these two particular compartments...


Odor in the cabin seems to be surprisingly OK this morning... but I'm not taking that as a sign of success.


-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 02:16 PM   #29
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
Your filter is on the low pressure (relatively speaking) side. If I didnt like it for some reason I would pull it off and replace it with one I do like. I prefer the Davco stuff but Racor makes some decent small filters also. On the subject of diesel getting into inaccessible bilge spaces,,,they need to be accessible. If diesel got in there water gets in there. I realize that lots of boats are built that way but generally there is a way to provide access, and not just a goofy looking plastic thing in an otherwise nice teak sole.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 03:47 PM   #30
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
I haven't found time to do much shopping yet... Do you know off-hand of some Davco or Racor assemblies that could readily bolt onto the Yanmar and act as secondary filter? (Primary is already a Racor.) One inlet, one outlet, bleed screws? (I never have understood why the OEM filter assembly is mounted backwards on the genset, so the bleed screws are much harder to get to...)

Certainly I could add accesses, it'd just be lots o' work, especially to make it look OK.

I did find another access to that compartment just under the genset. OTOH, it's behind the genset (further forward in the boat) so I can't really get there from here. Might be able to snake something in, but not sure how I'd control it. Whatever it "it" might be.

I've got a small household steam cleaner, and I might be able to get the wand into my #4 space through the limber hole (as I did with the vac hose), and I'm pretty sure I can get the wand into the #5 space via the gap next to the genset. The wand isn't particularly long; we'll see how that goes.


This is certainly being a learning experience.


-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 04:03 PM   #31
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Chris...I bolted on a Racor 120 to get rid of those ridiculous 17 part original, dual filters on the Lehman...it is rated at 20gph which I doubt is high enough for your engines (with partial clogging)...but they have similar ones with more flow I believe.

Yeah...yeah... to all the ABYC nuts...I'll worry about the plastic bowl when the time comes....fire aboard or trawler for sale....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	untitled.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	21.3 KB
ID:	50075  
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 05:12 PM   #32
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Thanks, I'll check it out.

I did have a quick look at the Davco and Racor websites. Most on the former seemed large, and most I found on the latter seem to be more about fuel/water separating than simply filtering, but I'm hampered a bit by not knowing some stuff. As usual.

I know what I've got (sorta), so I know how big it is, how many ports, I know I need bleed screws... but have no clue about flow rate or filter density.

I can't find (or can't recognize) a minimum fuel flow rate for the Yanmar 3TNE74 engine. Nor anything about the OEM secondary fuel filter; element density, flow rate, all a mystery. Have specs up the gazoo, but not that, either in Kohler or Yanmar docs that I have available. It's only making 14-hp at 1800 RPMs, so can't be that much, I'd think...

The OEM filter assembly is probably about 4"H x 3" diameter, not huge.

Would seem to me something that takes screw-in fittings -- instead of an apparently press-in input fitting -- would be better.

I've queried Kohler, but doubt I'll get anything other than a vanilla answer.

Racor has a nifty selection tool that's almost unusable for somebody like me: Let's configure your filter! OK, what series do you want?

Huh? How the hell do I know?

That might work a little better if I had those pesky factoids, but for first guesses... not so much. (It's a bit discouraging to know I'm not even a competent shopper.)

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 05:32 PM   #33
Member
 
City: Sandusky
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 17
I just remembered what the something was......THE MANUAL! You would not think of installing a automotive starter in your engine room would you? So why in the world would you think sucking diesel through an electric motor would be a good thing?

Thanks for the Greeting RT.
vonovik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2016, 06:01 PM   #34
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Sure, ignition protected devices I do not believe are required in diesel engine rooms.

The explosive concentration of diesel fuel vapors would be tough to reach if suckling up a tiny layer of diesel and water...especially if emulsified already.

Many have done it successfully, me included, and as someone asked.....anyone ever hear of an issue with vacuums and diesel? Gas certainly...diesel?
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2016, 07:21 AM   #35
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by vonovik View Post
I just remembered what the something was......THE MANUAL! You would not think of installing a automotive starter in your engine room would you? So why in the world would you think sucking diesel through an electric motor would be a good thing?

Of course I wouldn't put an automotive thing in a gas engine room, nor would I use a shop-vac on gas...

But diesel is not particularly flammable... and I needed to reduce the level quickly (slightly faster to start sucking than to disconnect the batteries.), my transfer pump was at home (winter project) while the shop-vac was on the boat... so I weighed the risks for a nano-second and got on with it.

Wouldn't have been my first choice, but then my first choice wouldn't have included a broken fuel filter assembly while the transfer pump wasn't around, either.

-Chris
__________________

__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012