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Old 01-24-2012, 05:15 PM   #21
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

I really like the idea of having the salon area without a table and more relaxed as yours is, but we have no room in our pilothouse to have the dining area there..... *there *are always compromises!
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:42 PM   #22
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Designing and Building a dining table

Sounds even easier than the original plan and a great looking table. *Do you remember about how many inches the table could slide... I will have to check out specs for the sliding chair hardware.

I wonder why we don't hear about more people having sliding tables, it seems such a good idea.


-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Tuesday 24th of January 2012 06:43:46 PM
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:36 AM   #23
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Dan:

As our boats are both by C&L, no surprise that we have the same table, and the same issues with it.
I recently put Quartz "Silestone?" countertops in my galley, so naturally looked at replacing the dining table with the same material. I stalled out in looking for hinges that could handle the Quartz material effectively, and due to the extra weight of that material, with whether to abandon the folding idea and go with a one piece table top.

I have decided that the original dimensions are not to be retained, but I don't like the idea of abandoning the present design of folding wings.

I still plan to do something with the table, as the full size side is Formica with a fake wood grain that is no longer in keeping with the quality of the countertops in the galley and other real wood elements in the saloon. The underside of the wings are veneer that has dings that make it look (to my eye) old and worn, rather than giving it character. I do like the smaller size, with the wings folded, as we are most often just two for dinner.

When I replace the table, it will be 2 to 4 inches wider, but I will keep the same length. I would like to radius the corners to about 4" instead of keeping the sharp 90* corners of the original, but could only do this if I build it as a one piece top. If I keep to a folding wing design, I have to keep the sharp corners, as they end up right in the middle of the long edges, when folded in. I will keep the original hidden hinges. In 18 yrs, the table top has been used in the lowered position only once, for guest bedding, so when redone, keeping that feature is unimportant. When the upholstery is redone (coming soon,as the fabric has already been purchased), it won't be made to fill the bedding spaces. The size of the saloon will allow a much wider table, but the supports would have to be moved on the floor to go much more than 4 inches wider, so I have set that as a limit. I think your proposed width is just too wide for the size of the saloon, and needing a moveable support is not a good idea.

I have managed to keep the veneer close to the condition it was in when I got the boat 18yrs ago, so I am not concerned about the durability of veneer, but I do like the look of a solid wood edge of about 3 to 4 inches all around, like Don's photo. The finished thickness is not too important, so I will likely use 1/2" teak plywood, good one side, doubled so as to match the grain on each completed side. The hinges only need to be set down from the upper surface accurately. The depth to the lower surface can be increased from the present thickness, by the choice of material. That choice will mean a thicker edging piece, which will also look better.

Now you have me wanting to get to that project sooner, rather than later!

Let us know what your final choice is.
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:53 PM   #24
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Keith, I was looking through old threads to see if you had posted a picture of your salon table and was reminded that you had redone you counters and that you would post pictures...but I couldn't find them. *I would love to see the finished version. ... I think you mentioned you have done all the work yourself... we have a huge learning curve before we get to doing that kind of thing including some of the work you wrote about repairing your teak.

When you describe your table top, I don't think ours is the same. *The picture I posted isn't great, but there are no wings, and the previous owner actually cut out the centre section so that it could be removed when his 'larger' friends came to visit - they couldn't slide around the table so they moved in through the middle! *So the current table is really quite a mess. *From your description, *I understand that your 'wings' fold in on the narrow sides of the table and meet in the middle. *In the folded state, does that mean that the table edge is quite far from the side seats. *I assume that means you have lots of room to move around the table to get to the inside part of the bench.

As I mentioned earlier, our table is approx 20 x 52 which means it finishes exactly at the front edge of all three sides of our u-shaped salon seating (allowing it to drop into place and become the base of that never used extra berth). *It is fine for two, but too small for the extra guest or two who would sit on the middle part of the u-shaped bench. *And even if we were to keep that size of main table and just add an extra leaf of the same size that could fold out toward the opposite settee, it would still leave a gap from the edge of the table to the opposite settee of at least 15 inches. *So we couldn't use that settee for extra seating and we really don't have a lot of extra storage for individual extra chairs. *

That's why we are thinking of expanding the main table base to approx 28 x 52, which would give us a larger space when we are dining with the table folded... we always sit at the oppposite ends.... and with the sliding top, the table can be centred over the metal legs when dining, or pushed closer the the middle part of the u-shaped bench if we need the space to open up the engine hatch. *And with the unfolded leaf, it would now reach to the opposite settee for use by guests. *

With the new configuration we could easily seat at least 8... we have three married daughters and grandchildren (although one daughter lives in Australia, so she doesn't get to the boat too often!!!)*

Another thought, I am curious why you see the extra movable support piece as a problem. *It would fold up for storage in our pantry immediately ajacent to the settee and would only need to be used when the table is open for a large gang. *(we had a similar support for the folding table on our sailboat many years ago and it seemed to work okay..)

Regarding the use of veneer vs solid material... I like your idea of the wide banding, but am still concerned about keeping the middle veneer section in top shape. *Tools on the table, grandchildrens' toys... I can only imagine that dings will be inevitable. *So what do you think about the idea we posted later, using 1"flat grain solid wood, but adding banding to the short sides to help resist cupping and warping... we haven't suggested this to the wood working shop yet, but expect to mention it next time we talk to them.

One other thing regarding the size of the table... we do plan to try to mock up a simple plywood version of the full size table to check to see if the larger size does work in real life as opposed to the wonderful world of pie-in-the-sky ideas!

We'd love to hear back from you and please keep us posted on your ongoing plans!
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:05 PM   #25
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Tuesday 24th of January 2012 03:02:19 PM


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Susan & Dan
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Dan:
Your pictures, above, look like my table, as it appears to have the wings that would fold over the center part.* That is why I thought your table is like mine.* You should go back to the original configuration, then you could get around the table instead of having to go through the middle of it!!
If you are not going to do the work yourself,* you really have to be careful about your design.* When you hire a shop to do something they have never done before, you will get unpredictable results, as they will interpret your instructions in ways you have not considered.*
I see your cabin has no room for loose chairs, as we have on the open side of our table, hence your wider design.* I would be reluctant to try something as radical as a banquet table in a small cabin.* I would stick to the original design.* In fact, if you are sticking to Formica, there doesn't look to be anything wrong with the present table.
I will try to get some pictures tomorrow.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:31 AM   #26
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Designing and Building a dining table

Our boat came with a fixed pedestal table that dropped down to form a "double" berth big enough for two chinese midgets. The table was uncomfortable to sit at and wasn't much use for dining more than 2-3 people. We took it out and filled in the pedestal hole with teak and holly that pretty closely matched the original sole (and there is a carpet over that spot anyway).

I designed and had Arrigoni build a folding leaf table on a freestanding pedestal base. With both leafs opened, it can seat 4-6 for a meal. Closed, its fine for 2-3. It can be dropped to coffee table height. It can be placed wherever the situation warrants. Finally, it can be opened and dropped all the way down to sit on ledgers on the port and starboard settees, filled in with cushions and, for real comfy, an inflatable mattress, for the rare times that we have an overnight guest or couple.

The table is teak ply with banded edges of solid teak. Provision has been made for securing it in a seaway, although when it is dropped down in its folded up position it hasn't ever moved while unsecured in fairly rough conditions.

The only drawback is that when the table is fully opened it impedes access to the aft door, but we can still use the helm door.

The first pic is of the old table (now doing duty in my home shop/man hole on a free standing base). Sorry I don't have a pic of the table opened up.


-- Edited by dwhatty on Thursday 26th of January 2012 07:38:02 AM
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:12 AM   #27
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Keith, I will look forward to seeing your pictures!
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:35 AM   #28
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

David and Emily,

Nice looking table. *I really like the idea of the table being movable. *We really hadn't thought of that option. *What method do you use to secure the table? *

I can't tell from the picture, but it looks like the opposite seatee would be close enough to the opened leaf to use comfortably. *How wide is the table with both leafs open and how are the leafs supported when open?

*
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #29
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Charles, we will be redoing all the upholstery. *We are trying to figure out the most comfortable setup and what modifications we can make. *We have the fabric, but haven't bought any foam yet.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:25 AM   #30
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Quote:
Delia Rosa wrote:
David and Emily,

Nice looking table. *I really like the idea of the table being movable. *We really hadn't thought of that option. *What method do you use to secure the table? *

I can't tell from the picture, but it looks like the opposite seatee would be close enough to the opened leaf to use comfortably. *How wide is the table with both leafs open and how are the leafs supported when open?

*
To secure it, I bolted two SS pad eyes through the front of the side and aft parts of the starboard L shaped settee just under the horizontal ledgers. The table is then dropped (in its folded position) down til it rests on the ledgers tight in the corner of the aft and side parts of that settee. A light line is then wrapped around the pedestal, pulled tight and secured to the pad eyes. Simple and effective.

When the table is opened and in the down/bed position it reaches from the ledgers on the starboard side settee to the one on the port side settee and sits on these ledgers.

In the up and open position (height infinitely adjustable) people can sit comfortably at the table on both sides (as well as on each end) for dinner, table games or whatever.

In the closed position, it can be dropped to coffee table height and positioned as desired.

On each side of the table there are two padded support "arms" that slide out from under the center part to support the open leafs.

I can't remember the exact dimensions of the table but it is somewhere around 38" fore and aft, 23" side to side in the closed position and 46" side to side in the open position.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:58 AM   #31
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Designing and Building a dining table

Quote:
dwhatty wrote:
Sorry I don't have a pic of the table opened up.

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David:

In 4 or 5 months, when the snow & ice are gone & the boat is back in the water, I would love to see a photo of said table in the open position also.
*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Thursday 26th of January 2012 11:02:06 AM
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:04 AM   #32
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

David and Emily, *It sounds like you have achieved exactly what we are hoping to do... ie having the table reach across the width of the salon to both settees. *

The biggest difference in what we woud*need to build is that our table would be wider - 56" instead of the 46" than yours is (our base table would be 28" wide with 2 x 14" leafs. *Our table is also longer - 52" instead of 38". *Do you think your design would support the larger size? * Or would a double pedestle base (which is what we currently have) work?

We'd appreciate your thoughts!
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:37 AM   #33
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Quote:
Delia Rosa wrote:
David and Emily, *It sounds like you have achieved exactly what we are hoping to do... ie having the table reach across the width of the salon to both settees. *

The biggest difference in what we woud*need to build is that our table would be wider - 56" instead of the 46" than yours is (our base table would be 28" wide with 2 x 14" leafs. *Our table is also longer - 52" instead of 38". *Do you think your design would support the larger size? * Or would a double pedestle base (which is what we currently have) work?

We'd appreciate your thoughts!
I don't know why your size wouldn't work as long as the base were wide/long enough to support it stably. Double pedestal might work as well.

I did a mock up out of cheap ply first to check out the design(s).

We used the pedestal from Arrigoni shown about 1/2 way down this page, the anodized alum one with the square top mounting plate and round bottom plate. The round bottom plate is mounted on top of a square piece of solid teak and the top plate is mounted to another piece of solid teak that is screwed and glued to the underside of the teak plywood table top.

Arrigoni has other types of pedestals that are more aesthetically pleasing than the one we used. We had to go with the one we did because of the range of vertical motion we required. If you did not have to drop the table to a low bed height, some of their other pedestal are nice.

If you want to foot the bill, once you have your dimensions, Arrigoni will finish the design and build it for you. They do good work, but are not inexpensive.

Here's a link to some of their tables.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:00 AM   #34
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Thank you for the link. *Arrigoni does seem to do very nice work... unfortunately, way out of our price range... *

I guess the next step is to mock up a plywood version of the two different designs we are considering - what I will think of as the dwhatty movable two-folded-leaf design, and the charles sliding top design with the singe-folded leaf!
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:03 AM   #35
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Dan:

Found these of the galley counters.* The main cabin is a bit torn up today, as A new sound shield is going on the genset, so the table pics could be a while.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:15 AM   #36
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:
David:

In 4 or 5 months, when the snow & ice are gone & the boat is back in the water, I would love to see a photo of said table in the open position also.
*

*
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:08 PM   #37
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Keith, nice job on the counters.... I like that you kept the fiddles.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:14 PM   #38
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

If you want to use cherry, I have a barn full...probably a couple of thousand board feet. 4/4 5/4, 8,4 and 12/4. Some of it has been dryng for 10 years and some of it I cut* and had sawn last year. Some of the boards are 12 feet long and probably 14" wide. I have 48 acres and whenever we lose a tree, I take it to the sawmill. Have walnut, cherry, white and red oak, and tons*of poplar, some hickory. You can ha e whatever you need for free...just figure out how to ship it.

The wider the board the more likely it is*to warp or cup. Thicker is not necessarily better as weight accumilates rapidly . When I was building Annie we could get teak for bout $10 per bf. I recently did a quick project for* friend and it had reached $30 per bf in Houston Texas. Cherry is light but fairly soft but is probably half the weight of teak. Easy to work and stain. Has a retty uniform grain with few knots. This is our table. I used 5/16*teak oveer plywood. Plywood is very stable, fairly light and does not tend to move.

Where are you loccated??

*

*
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:51 PM   #39
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RE: Designing and Building a dining table

Quote:
Whistledoc wrote:*This is our table. I used 5/16*teak oveer plywood. Plywood is very stable, fairly light and does not tend to move.
*Doc,

Have you thought about making one of those tables that is 8' around*and then by moving the outside ring it goes to 12' or some other larger size. I think the outer ring moves and through some levers it seperates and draws some pieces up from under the table to form the larger table.* Like a Chinese puzzle.
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:05 PM   #40
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Designing and Building a dining table

Quote:
Whistledoc wrote:
*Have walnut, cherry, white and red oak, and tons*of poplar, some hickory. You can ha e whatever you need for free...just figure out how to ship it.*
*Hey Doc ya got any birch?

I cut down a tree in my friends yard and used the wood for my trim but I am out. I'm looking for some 3/8"x 2"x*8'*I want to install celings in the*V birth.

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 26th of January 2012 04:16:22 PM
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