Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-10-2011, 12:33 PM   #1
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
Deck delamination

I need some help as to what to do with deck delamination. In replacing my windlass I had to cut a bigger hole for the chain to fall through and the plywood where I cut the hole was seeping with water and has delaminated as show in the pictures. There is some swelling around the area where I cut the hole too.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	imag0099_edited.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	28.2 KB
ID:	5640   Click image for larger version

Name:	imag0100_edited.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	5641   Click image for larger version

Name:	imag0101_edited.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	5642  
__________________
Advertisement

timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 02:50 PM   #2
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
RE: Deck delamination

Thanks Dave. I believe the water intrusion came from the hole in the picture. I was aware of elevated moisture readings in the area upon completion of survey.

Surveyor's comments: Elevated moisture and early signs of delaminating observed along the foredeck and running back approx 5' along the starboard gunwale. A picture shows readings of 24-34% in the effected area. This was a year ago.

After survey I got some fiberglass resin and stuffed as much in the existing hole as I could thinking that would stop more water intrusion. When I enlarged the hole I was surprised to see the plywood around the enlarged hole socked with water.

Is it possible to stop further water intrusion or will the existing water in the plywood continue to spread and de-laminate more of the deck?
__________________

timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 03:00 PM   #3
Guru
 
JohnP's Avatar
 
City: Toms River
Country: USA
Vessel Name: D U E T T E
Vessel Model: 1996 36' Island Gypsy
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,109
RE: Deck delamination

If I did not want to do a full blown, cut out and core replacement.* I would clean out as much wet core as I could with some kind of reefing tool, or a drill bit, or such.

Than I would try and dry it as best I could.

Clean it out with acetone, and push epoxy into to the gap with a paint brush. Follow with filling the rest with epoxy and a thickening powder.* When all cured grind or sand smooth.* Reinstall your deck fitting with good caulk and hope for the best.

If you stop the water the deck will probably not get worse.

JohnP
JohnP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 07:05 PM   #4
Hospitality Officer
 
Andy G's Avatar
 
City: Pittwater
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Sarawana
Vessel Model: IG 36 Quad Cabin
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,557
RE: Deck delamination

How spongy is your deck? If the core has not degraded to much, go with what John recomends. if the wet core section is more mush than wood you will need to rectify not only the problem regarding where the water is getting in but also you will need to reinforce the affected area.

We had this problem and were forced to go down the latter route which became bigger than Ben Hur.

If you have access, I think David 's suggestion would be the go. From our experience it will take quite a while for the deck to dry out, probably the whole summer to do it properly.

I think the way you approach the problem may also depend on how long you intend to keep the boat.

Good luck
Andy G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 07:32 PM   #5
Guru
 
Carey's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Happy Destiny
Vessel Model: Custom Lobster Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,101
Deck delamination

Quote:
JohnP wrote:
If I did not want to do a full blown, cut out and core replacement.* I would clean out as much wet core as I could with some kind of reefing tool, or a drill bit, or such.

Than I would try and dry it as best I could.

Clean it out with acetone, and push epoxy into to the gap with a paint brush. Follow with filling the rest with epoxy and a thickening powder.* When all cured grind or sand smooth.* Reinstall your deck fitting with good caulk and hope for the best.

If you stop the water the deck will probably not get worse.

JohnP
Generally, the advise already given is good. All I would add, is to investigate the area all around the known damage, to verify the source of the moisture. Next, I would apply heat and air flow via fan at the opening you have. I would continue this for a month or so, hoping to wick the moisture toward the hole. Then, proceed as mentioned, spending a great deal of time making sure the seal is beyond doubt. If no more moisture is taken on, the degradation should end, and you should retain whatever deck strength you currently have.*

*


-- Edited by Carey on Sunday 10th of April 2011 08:48:28 PM
Carey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 08:14 PM   #6
Guru
 
Woodsong's Avatar
 
City: Atlanta
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,630
RE: Deck delamination

Only thing I would say to amend David's recommendation is I would NOT go back with more plywood or balsa core! We recored our entire foredeck and aft bridge deck this past fall due to water intrusion and went with coracell synthetic coring. It does not absorb water and the last thing I wanted to do was to recore and have another leak occur and have to totally recore AGAIN.

In my experience, if you are already finding that much moisture, it will be very hard to dry out the coring and if you epoxy the edges then all you are doing is trapping the moisture in the coring to continue doing damage. Tough call as to whether it would be cheaper to recore from inside and below or outside and from above. We did ours from outside but we knew we were painting the topsides so matching gelcoat wasn't an issue for us.
Woodsong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 05:10 AM   #7
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
RE: Deck delamination

Thanks again guys. Looks like I'll need to get some professional help with this. I tried to seal the hole once and it didn't work. I'll check out coracell.
timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 07:29 AM   #8
Guru
 
Woodsong's Avatar
 
City: Atlanta
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,630
RE: Deck delamination

Sorry, I was not thinking last night. It is called Core Cell, not coracell. Here is a link to the product:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...09319&id=21979

Our coring was actually 5/8" but you are probably cored with 1/2". It's not cheap but it is cheaper than recoring twice due to plywood/balsa getting wet again later down the road.

You definitely need to determine where the moisture is coming from though otherwise your problem will persist!
Woodsong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 09:15 AM   #9
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Deck delamination

You can allow it to dry out by drilling some holes from the underside if you have access there.* 1/4 holes work well from my experience.

*
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 09:23 AM   #10
Guru
 
Woodsong's Avatar
 
City: Atlanta
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,630
RE: Deck delamination

Drilling holes can definitely help. I've looked at some boats with coring issues...when we drilled from below one one of them water came gushing out like a faucet for a moment! Not a good sign.
Woodsong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 09:40 AM   #11
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
RE: Deck delamination

I'll try drilling holes from underneath. At least that will give me an idea of the extent of the water intrusion.
When I enlarged the hole for the windlass water came gushing out, as you say, not good.
We're headed to the Keys next month and as a temporary measure I'm fabricating a 3/4 " ply backing plate for the new windlass.
timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 10:43 AM   #12
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Deck delamination

Quote:
timjet wrote:
I'll try drilling holes from underneath. At least that will give me an idea of the extent of the water intrusion.
When I enlarged the hole for the windlass water came gushing out, as you say, not good.
*Yes. Make sure you remember to wipe the drill after each hole so you'll know when you hit dry land.

As an EX old Mainship owner I consider myself very experienced in deck core repair. *I have done lots of repair using various methods including "drill and fill", remove outer skin and repair from above, remove inner skin and repair from below. All core I have replaced has been with plywood and polyester resins. *Yes some of the previously mentioned materials are waterproof, but I am comfortable working with plywood. Done right it's a permanent repair for all intents.

Your deck issue will not be all that hard to fix, just time consuming and messy. If you choose to do it yourself we can help guide you.

*
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 07:46 AM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
RE: Deck delamination

Timjet, I'd think twice about drilling from below. Think about it. You have damp core, but at present it's trapped between a sandwich of waterproof fibreglass layers above and below. Disrupt that with holes and you have the potential for leaks that were not there before. After all, if the damp core remains just that, a damp core - sealed top and bottom by glass, why bother doing anything at all unless the integrity of the laminates above or below is compromised, (which is what your drill holes would do). It is probably still contributing some stiffness to the deck, but if it's too springy, then one might be better off, after removing old teak - the usual cause of this damp core, and then laying down a stiffener, then glassing over. How do I know? Because the decks of my boat had leaked and gone soft here and there, and the previous owner, not wanting to spend a $quillion, had the above done. I would have been a bit worried too, but even now, 15 yrs later, the decks done like that are fine. No damp comes through, and apart from the fact I know there is a layer of damp core in under there because I have drilled out holes for deck waste outlets and water-in fillers, and can see the two separate layers, sandwiched, one damp, and the top one still nice and dry, I would never know otherwise. It comes back to the old adage, "if it ain't broke".....well, at least don't over-fix it....is all I'm saying.....
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 09:19 AM   #14
Guru
 
Fotoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 621
RE: Deck delamination

I agree with Peter. A quick and easy fix would be to take out as much core as possible from the existing hole as others have suggested (an allen key in a drill works good for this). But instead of filling the void with thicken resin or epoxy, I would use fiber putty. Much easier to work with to fill big gaps.
Fotoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 10:58 AM   #15
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
RE: Deck delamination

Wow, thanks guys, lots to think about.
The deck under disscussion is 1/2 " ply between layers of glass around the area of the windlass.
I can clean out the area around the windlass hole and fill with puddy if Peter call guide me as to where to get it.

I'm not certain the moisture is coming from the windlass hole, but I see no other area that it can come from.
timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 08:12 PM   #16
Guru
 
Woodsong's Avatar
 
City: Atlanta
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4550 Pilothouse
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,630
RE: Deck delamination

TIm,
If you can fix it with filler or epoxy or something, great. Personally, I find it concerning that the surveyor found elevated moisture readings 5' back from the windlass. Combining that with the fact you had "flowing water" come out when you enlarged the hole....well....this, to me indicates a possible pretty big area of delamination that is beyond just putting in some filler and hoping. If you tap the deck area with a mallet or something, how far back are you getting a dull sound? If you have not sounded the hull yet you need to do it as it will really show you how big of an issue you have going on here. If you seal it up with filler and have not found and corrected the source of the leak you will only force the water to further spread into the rest of the core so make sure you have the source isolated and fixed or the delamniation will get worse.
Woodsong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:46 AM   #17
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,534
RE: Deck delamination

The Daffynition of "Trawler" changes with time.

If you are inshore 100% of the time , you will get away with a very different concept of "repair " than should you see waves breaking on deck for a few hours .
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 06:27 AM   #18
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
RE: Deck delamination

I'm headed down to the boat this weekend and will sound the deck a bit to try and determine the extent of the water intrusion.
The deck is not spongy when I walk on it so I think what I will do is make sure as best I can that the water intrusion is coming from the windlass hole and no where else.
If I can determine that then I will drill 1/4 inch holes on the underneath side to drain and allow to dry.
Clean out the hole and fill with puddy.
Get a moisture meter and monitor the area for a year or so and see what happens.

Sound like a good plan??

FF, if I allow this to continue maybe one day I'll be setting the anchor and fall into the fwd V berth!! I gotta do something about this.
timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 08:01 AM   #19
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
RE: Deck delamination

if the ply in the deck isnt actually rotten why not vacuum bag the area for a few days then epoxy the thing back together after it is dry.. drill a few holes through the bottom side and suck the epoxy into the core??

*

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 08:31 AM   #20
Guru
 
Fotoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 621
RE: Deck delamination

Something like that would be good: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...6678&id=752747
__________________

Fotoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teak Deck Removal Tony B General Maintenance 37 10-03-2014 10:43 PM
Battery in the upper deck Portuguese Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 12 06-21-2011 12:35 PM
Teak deck repair islandteak General Discussion 1 03-27-2011 03:41 AM
bridge deck box Woodsong General Discussion 30 12-28-2010 10:00 PM
More deck talk albin43 General Maintenance 22 04-27-2010 01:44 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012