Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-12-2016, 06:39 PM   #1
Guru
 
City: Hampton, va
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: 2003 Ocean Alexander 456
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 609
Butt kicked by stuffing box

I am obviously missing something. I want to restuff my rudder stuffing boxes but am unable to take them apart. Attached is the photo of one stuffing box. I assumed and was told that I need only take the nuts of the two studs shown, raise the flange and take out old stuffing, put in new stuffing. I am unable to get the flange up.

I have used hydraulic "jaws off life" but the rudder wants to move with the fitting.

Can someone tell me what I am missing.

Thanks
Gordon
Who up to now has only had dripless stuffing boxes.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0137.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	92.5 KB
ID:	51888  
__________________
Advertisement

Gordon J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 06:54 PM   #2
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,148
Disclaimer I have never done rudder boxes, but I have done engine stuffing boxes that look just like yours, but horizontal. You may have to drop the rudder, which means a haul out. Folks here will steer you in the right direction.
__________________

__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 07:07 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 997
Mine looks just like that but it just lifts up. Yours looks like it might have a portion of a thread showing under the round collar piece. Maybe it unscrews from the base after the bolts comes off?

You should be able to pull the studs out with a pair of vice grips. That would let you spin the flange if it's threaded. Seems like it shouldnt have to do that though.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 07:35 PM   #4
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,145
I have the same style for the engine. The flange should come right out
swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 07:48 PM   #5
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. GJ. Yup, as above, should just lift up. So that suggests a seizure of some sort. I would flood the groove/space between the upper part of the flange and the rudder shaft with a good penetrant and work the rudder back and forth.
You might have to soak and exercise 3x-4x daily for a week...Again, it should just lift up.

I doubt very, very much that the pieces are threaded together as suggested in post #3.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:02 PM   #6
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,447
Put a pry bar under the flange and get somebody to move the rudder back and forth while you pry upwards.
Why are you repacking them? It looks like they don't leak, are just over-serviced with grease. Clean up the area and degrease and you're good to go.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:03 PM   #7
TF Site Team
 
dimer2's Avatar
 
City: Houston
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Baobab
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4788
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,193
What RTF said!
__________________
No one who achieves success does so without acknowledging the help of others.
dimer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:18 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: Hampton, va
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: 2003 Ocean Alexander 456
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 609
These are somewhat cleaned up from when I started the project. I had some threads left so may be able to go ahead and tighten, but because they were fairly rusty, thought I had a leak. The boat is 13 years old and I figured being new to the boat, I would start from a known point.

I have used a hydraulic jaws which open, and theoretically, should have popped the fitting up. No mas.

I have soaked the fitting with WD40, and then resoaked it with Wd40. It is obviously not frozen because the rudders turn normally.

Thanks all, but so far, I haven't see a solution in the responses.

Gordon,
Who is thinking of retightening the whole mess and worry about is next haul out.

PS. I am on the hard.

PPS, I just finished a six-year service on my TRAC stabilizers. If anyone wants to know what is involved let me know.
Gordon J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:34 PM   #9
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. GJ. WD is not a particularity good penetrant (loosener upper). You would be better to try PB Blaster, Kroil or even a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. SOMETHING is binding or jammed in the fitting. Possibly a groove worn with some hardened packing wedged in the groove???? Again, as mentioned, that fitting should simply lift up.

I'm NOT suggesting you do this but what I would try is apply the hydraulic lifts on either side of the upper flange, heat up the upper fitting with a torch and have someone turn the wheel back and forth (post #6) all at the same time.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:41 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: Green Cove Springs, Florida
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 210
Send a message via Skype™ to bglad
Sounds like the ram is seized in the port. Have you tried budging it downward with the nuts? Some times the first move is what you need to get it going either direction. You might also use a pipe wrench or other tool to wrench it back and forth slightly to loosen it.

One other thing. I have found when working on my boilers and other pipe fittings with water soluble scale and rust is to use water to start the loosening process. Water soluble scale breaks down more readily with water. Seems like once you apply an oil it becomes impervious to water and almost has to be machined off versus rinsing away.

Grease or oil are the ticket while reassembling though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon J View Post
These are somewhat cleaned up from when I started the project. I had some threads left so may be able to go ahead and tighten, but because they were fairly rusty, thought I had a leak. The boat is 13 years old and I figured being new to the boat, I would start from a known point.

I have used a hydraulic jaws which open, and theoretically, should have popped the fitting up. No mas.

I have soaked the fitting with WD40, and then resoaked it with Wd40. It is obviously not frozen because the rudders turn normally.

Thanks all, but so far, I haven't see a solution in the responses.

Gordon,
Who is thinking of retightening the whole mess and worry about is next haul out.

PS. I am on the hard.

PPS, I just finished a six-year service on my TRAC stabilizers. If anyone wants to know what is involved let me know.
bglad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:43 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Hampton, va
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: 2003 Ocean Alexander 456
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 609
semi-planing,

Tried tapping, and turning wheel. I am putting penetrant (or WD 40 in this case) everywhere that might bind. The area in the photo looks greasy because of massive amounts of WD 40.

When I jack up the flange, the upper piece, I see the rudder lifting with it.

Gordon
Gordon J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:44 PM   #12
Guru
 
City: Hampton, va
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: 2003 Ocean Alexander 456
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 609
Bglad,

I did try retightening, thinking it might help. Now I can't get it back up as far as I originally had it.

Gordon
Gordon J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:47 PM   #13
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. GJ. If, you're on the hard, jam something between the rudder and the hull outside the boat to keep it from lifting. Then jack up. You won't be able to turn the rudder but maybe something will pop loose.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 08:57 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
City: Green Cove Springs, Florida
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 210
Send a message via Skype™ to bglad
Tried turning the rudder back and forth while jacking up on the flange? Sounds like the rudder may have a groove worn in it that is holding it in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon J View Post
semi-planing,

Tried tapping, and turning wheel. I am putting penetrant (or WD 40 in this case) everywhere that might bind. The area in the photo looks greasy because of massive amounts of WD 40.

When I jack up the flange, the upper piece, I see the rudder lifting with it.

Gordon
bglad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 09:38 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon J View Post
I am obviously missing something. I want to restuff my rudder stuffing boxes but am unable to take them apart. Attached is the photo of one stuffing box. I assumed and was told that I need only take the nuts of the two studs shown, raise the flange and take out old stuffing, put in new stuffing. I am unable to get the flange up.

I have used hydraulic "jaws off life" but the rudder wants to move with the fitting.

Can someone tell me what I am missing.

Thanks
Gordon
Who up to now has only had dripless stuffing boxes.
Looks like same arrangement as our 440 OA....stuffing box sits below a thick athwart ship "board" which mounts the big upper rudder bearings? In any case the "top hat/piston" portion of the stuffing box is stuck in the lower "bore/sleeve" as previously mentioned. The rudder is turning freely, so moving it around won't help. If there's even a slight amount of free play between the studs and the holes in the "top hat", you can probably get it to break loose a bit by gently tapping radially on the ears. Otherwise remove the studs to get a little more movement. The ones on our boat eventually came out with a lot of fiddling and tapping (studs in situ).

Dollars to donuts your stuffing boxes are probably weeping and the stuffing is hard as a rock...it was on our boat. I installed four new wraps of standard PTF flax and they needed routine adjustment. Last summer I added two more wraps of Gore and they seemed to seal up. I'm not sure if there's a cutless bearing below the stuffing box, but a slight vibration went away after renewing the stuffing.
go-planing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 09:48 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Martin J's Avatar
 
City: Mt Crested Butte
Country: USA
Vessel Name: St Christopher
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 50ft tri-cabin
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 244
Looks to me like a standard stuffing box, age old problem. Its not the shaft it's the outside of the movable adjustable flange and the tube, galvanic corrosion and water have created a build of corrosion and salts. You have to dissolve them you can use a little diesel, it takes time but unfreeses almost everything. Or muriatic acid, just a little acid with a pippet or similar on the outside of the adjustable gland, Wait 5 mins Tap lightly with a small hammer ( create vibration) to break the corrosion. It should begin to move. Then flush extensively with water, . Also wear all protective clothing, faceshields gloves etc
Martin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 09:49 PM   #17
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,145
I would after reading the new info fashion some wedges that you could hammer between the bolts and rudder post to pry it apart, when you hammer them in till they don't go any more get a 4# maul and beat the flange, it needs shock, pressure and shock!
swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 10:08 PM   #18
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
See if you can back out the studs so you can hit the packing retaining nut and break it free by pivoting it. If you can't back the studs out try rapping the gland retainer on its extreme ends to get it to pivot enough to break it free.

I would also wash and clean up the gland with some form of acid to cut through the corrosion.

Just have some baking soda mixed with water on hand to neutralize the acid.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 10:17 PM   #19
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
See if you can back out the studs so you can hit the packing retaining nut and break it free by pivoting it. If you can't back the studs out try rapping the gland retainer on its extreme ends to get it to pivot enough to break it free.

I would also wash and clean up the gland with some form of acid to cut through the corrosion.

Just have some baking soda mixed with water on hand to neutralize the acid.
This is the approach I would use......
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 10:34 PM   #20
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,145
I would worry about messing up the studs.
__________________

swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012