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Old 09-27-2012, 02:02 PM   #41
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....compared to northern areas with less UV exposure and possibly less wind.
The reduced UV might be correct. The less wind isn't. I WISH we had less wind. Storm gusts in our marina (measured by the weather station on top of Bellingham Cold Storage's ice house) are typically 60 mph and the last few years have seen gusts in excess of 80 mph. Sustained winds in these storms, which during the winter can march through in succession every five or six days, are typically 45 to 55 mph.

The high winds are why we keep our boat's back to the wind and why diligent attention has to be paid to seams. If a seam starts to go, particularly in the winter, the canvas cover will most likely be destroyed in a matter of weeks even if the canvas itself is in good shape or even new.

In addition to its resistant qualities and long life, Tenara is also extremely strong. That alone makes it worth using, at least around here.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:34 PM   #42
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Quality stuff I'm sure, but it seems a little comical that thread has a "lifetime warranty". Sure they might replace any failed thread, but it's the sewing that costs the money. They don't say they will pay for the labor to restich what failed.

As for the expected life of any marine canvas and thread, a lot has to do with the exposure it gets. UV light (in southern areas) and wind can cause canvas and thread to age quickly compared to northern areas with less UV exposure and possibly less wind.
I just turned 70, and my boat will be 40 next year. I think a 10 year life on the thread I used will get me to a point where neither me nor the boat is going to care!
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:38 PM   #43
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Quality stuff I'm sure, but it seems a little comical that thread has a "lifetime warranty". Sure they might replace any failed thread, but it's the sewing that costs the money. They don't say they will pay for the labor to restich what failed.

As for the expected life of any marine canvas and thread, a lot has to do with the exposure it gets. UV light (in southern areas) and wind can cause canvas and thread to age quickly compared to northern areas with less UV exposure and possibly less wind.
Last I checked the climate info and pilot charts and a lifetime of sailing from Miami to New York areas...usually the higher lattitudes have higher average wind speeds except for events like hurricanes (but there are plenty of 75mph+ nor'easters to deal with!!
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:13 PM   #44
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...As for the expected life of any marine canvas and thread, a lot has to do with the exposure it gets. UV light (in southern areas) and wind can cause canvas and thread to age quickly compared to northern areas with less UV exposure and possibly less wind.
Ron: You're absolutely right about the exposure, although I'm not sure the wind is an issue if properly designed. We cruise in the tropics and it's a different game for varnishes, biminis and paints with the UV. We are trying the Tenara thread for the first time after having to restitch UV resistant thread after less then 4 years when the Sunbrella still has life. What I find interesting is that the company that is doing our canvas work, is one of top referred to companies in the area, they were low bid and are using Tenara thread. I'm not sure there's a down side for us. I'll report back in 4 years.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:56 AM   #45
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Last I checked the climate info and pilot charts and a lifetime of sailing from Miami to New York areas...usually the higher lattitudes have higher average wind speeds except for events like hurricanes (but there are plenty of 75mph+ nor'easters to deal with!!
Check again. There are plenty of northern localities where high winds are uncommon.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:57 AM   #46
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I just turned 70, and my boat will be 40 next year. I think a 10 year life on the thread I used will get me to a point where neither me nor the boat is going to care!
I use that logic as well from time to time.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:16 AM   #47
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I think wind has a large affect on fabric. Even on the best fitting bimini, wind would pull the fabric away from the thread holes and elongate them over time. That's why I am saying that no matter what thread you use, the fabric around it will begin to fail too and why I think it's a waste to use lifetime thread. At least on a bimini, maybe not so much on a railing cover, but there are lots of covers (our helm cover is one) that IS under some multi-directional stress where wind would add to the loads the seams are already under.

I am not saying the thread isn't better because it clearly is. I just think that it is overkill for most purposes. I have always been an advocate for driving to drive the market with my wallet. And in my own little way, try and keep the "marine grade" industry ripoff to a minimum. Use it when you need to, find alternatives whenever possible or appropriate. That's all I am sayin' (*steps down off soapbox*)
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:34 AM   #48
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Check again. There are plenty of northern localities where high winds are uncommon.
I did...reread the section that talks about rising and sinking air at 30, 60 and 90 degrees latitude and how the Coriolis effect turns that into wind......and how being near water makes a difference too...

You have to love all that Navy meteorology that I had in flight training...plus living form Miami to Alaska and being underway from the Arctic to the Antarctic and being the Aviation departments weather guy on all those trips...
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:51 PM   #49
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We wash our canvas periodically using a cleaner my wife gets from the canvas company she uses....I do know it's important to wash it twice and rinse it very thoroughly. She also treats it twice with 303 and even that application has a wet-dry process she learned from the canvas company.
Marin, is she washing in the washing machine? THANKS
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #50
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How much does the "life time" thread really add to the cost of a new bimini? Any body have any idea?

You can buy a 1595 yard spool of Tenara thread which is simlar in weight to V-92 thread for $129.00 from Sailrite.

Tenara Lifetime Thread - UV Stable Rot Resistant Outdoor Thread - Tenara
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #51
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Marin, is she washing in the washing machine? THANKS
Jennifer: I was looking up Tenara (I'm waiting for paint to dry) and found this.

Care & Cleaning Sunbrella Marine Grade Fabric Video
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:33 PM   #52
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How much does the "life time" thread really add to the cost of a new bimini? Any body have any idea?

You can buy a 1595 yard spool of Tenara thread which is simlar in weight to V-92 thread for $129.00 from Sailrite.

Tenara Lifetime Thread - UV Stable Rot Resistant Outdoor Thread - Tenara

I can't imagine it's much if you are a pro...the cost of the fabric and labor has got to be almost all of it...the thread can't be much and the price differential is even smaller.

Now if you are a DIYer and have to buy a whole spool.....
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #53
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Marin, is she washing in the washing machine? THANKS
She does for the smaller and newer pieces if they have good seams or she has redone them with Tenara. But the oldest and/or larger pieces of canvas like the big flying bridge covers and dinghy cover we wash by hand in a plastic tub we take up to the boat.

While she has redone many of the seams in these pieces the seams that appear to still be sound she leaves alone. But she quickly found out that the action of a washing machine can sometimes cause the thread in the older seams to break and come out. Washing by hand in the tub greatly reduces the chances of this happening. Eventually these seams will have to be redone but the gentler washing at least puts that day off for awhile.

PS--- I took a look at the Sunbrella cleaning video Larry posted the link to and this is pretty much what we do. We probably don't wash off the flying bridge cover as often as we should, though. I'll have to start doing that more often, particularly as we have a degree of soot in the air from the nearby railyard. The main difference I see from the video is what my wife uses for the cleaner when she washes our canvas. It's something she gets from the canvas shop (which does a lot of marine canvas) and it's supposedly tailored specfically for canvas.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:35 PM   #54
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Thanks Marin and Larry. We've put some things in the washer and they don't seem to come out particularly clean-I need to investigate canvas specific cleaners. Other things I've been afraid to wash that way, like the Bimini of questionable age and condition! We do have a large tub... I'll find some cleaner and try the the Bimini in the tub.

I love how my phone capitalizes Bimini.
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:04 PM   #55
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I love how my phone capitalizes Bimini.
So does my iPad and the spellcheckers on our computers. The people who created the spelling data probably never heard of a bimini, only Bimini.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:06 AM   #56
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Many of todays marine motorists are ex sailors , so may still have their old sewing machine.

Building anything is complex , but restiching a seam , no big deal.
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