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03-21-2017, 05:00 AM
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#1
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Chicago, IL
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,993
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Banned antifouling paint in the US
A friend here in the Eastern Caribbean is returning his boat to the US for sale. He has been told that if he enters US waters with a banned antifouling paint (Seahawk 44 I think) that he will have to remove it.
I understand that the banned antifouling paints cannot be sold (or applied?) in the US, but I have never heard that the paint must be removed from the bottom of a boat that has come into the US from outside of the US.
Does anyone have information on the issue as to whether this paint must be removed?
In this specific case the boat is not a US flagged vessel.
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Marty
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03-21-2017, 06:32 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,940
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They have paint police now !
and ..... is it not illegal to sell a non-US boat in US waters ?
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03-21-2017, 07:14 AM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Chicago, IL
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
and ..... is it not illegal to sell a non-US boat in US waters ?
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I believe one can sell a non-US flagged vessel in the US. Very frequently done by Canadians who buy boats in the US register them in Canada but pay neither the HST (Canadian Sales Tax) or the Canadian import duty. When it comes time to sell they frequently sell the boat in the US without ever paying these two Canadian taxes.
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Marty
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03-21-2017, 07:29 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,869
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I have notice many times on boat sales websites and bot might have a comment such as "Not for sale in the USA." Someone once explained this to me but I've forgotten the reason.
As for the bottom paint, it may or may not be illegal in the USA, but I don't think anyone checks things like the chemical content of bottom paint. Of course, we don't know what the future might bring in the wackier states on the west coast. I believe one has already banned copper bottom paint starting at some future date.
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03-21-2017, 08:25 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,076
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I'd be real interested who told him this. Was it any sort of credible source? Personally I would just ignore it. Who's going to check?
As for the sale issue, I believe it's all about whether the US Import Duty has been paid on the boat. If it is duty paid, then it can be sold in the US to US citizens (a US transaction). If duty has not been paid, then you can't sell it here to US citizens (only non-US transactions allowed).
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MVTanglewood.com
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03-21-2017, 08:29 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: st pete
Vessel Model: 430 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,483
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All of the above is either a money grab, or a power grab....
Too much regulation and too much paperwork.
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Seevee
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03-21-2017, 11:12 AM
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#7
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Canadians can only avoid the taxes if the boat is not imported into Canada and can only avoid the import duty if its Canadian or US manufacture.
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Don't believe everything that you think.
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03-21-2017, 11:13 AM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Chicago, IL
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
I'd be real interested who told him this. Was it any sort of credible source? Personally I would just ignore it. Who's going to check?
As for the sale issue, I believe it's all about whether the US Import Duty has been paid on the boat. If it is duty paid, then it can be sold in the US to US citizens (a US transaction). If duty has not been paid, then you can't sell it here to US citizens (only non-US transactions allowed).
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This is my understanding.
Interesting side comment. Friends of mine here in St. Lucia are selling a UK registered boat, bought in the US and US duty paid. The closing to another UK couple cannot take place in St. Lucia without paying a 22% duty on the boat to St. Lucia. Thus it is off to Martinique to close the sale.
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Marty
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03-21-2017, 11:29 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
City: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Vessel Model: I have keys to lots of boats...
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 438
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I have never heard about the paint issue.
Bay Pelican says the boat is not US flagged but he does not say where it was built. If it is US built then a Customs Entry for "US built returned goods" must be filed with customs and there is no duty. If it was built in a few countries that have duty agreements like Canada (NAFTA) or Turkey, then no duty is due. If it was built in Taiwan, China, Europe or most other countries than a 1.5% duty needs to be paid to sell in the US. The 1.5% would be on 75% of the asking price. There is more to this of course, a customs broker that knows boats should be used. 1.5% of the asking price is very low compared to most countries and the penalty for non-compliance could be the value of the boat.
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Tucker Fallon CPYB
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03-21-2017, 11:36 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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03-21-2017, 11:38 AM
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Chicago, IL
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy
I have never heard about the paint issue.
Bay Pelican says the boat is not US flagged but he does not say where it was built. If it is US built then a Customs Entry for "US built returned goods" must be filed with customs and there is no duty. If it was built in a few countries that have duty agreements like Canada (NAFTA) or Turkey, then no duty is due. If it was built in Taiwan, China, Europe or most other countries than a 1.5% duty needs to be paid to sell in the US. The 1.5% would be on 75% of the asking price. There is more to this of course, a customs broker that knows boats should be used. 1.5% of the asking price is very low compared to most countries and the penalty for non-compliance could be the value of the boat.
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Thanks, the US duty was a side issue and I did not originally explain that the US duty on this boat has already been paid and the prior owner was a US citizen and the boat was US flagged.
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Marty
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03-21-2017, 01:54 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
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As I read it, that law wouldn't prevent what the OP wants to do. The law prevents new boat sales with high copper paint, and it prevents sale of high copper paints. It doesn't outlaw what's on your boat today, nor prevent anyone from bringing such a boat into WA.
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MVTanglewood.com
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03-21-2017, 02:53 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Pelican
A friend here in the Eastern Caribbean is returning his boat to the US for sale. He has been told that if he enters US waters with a banned antifouling paint (Seahawk 44 I think) that he will have to remove it.
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Sounds like fear mongering to me. I've never heard of an issue and I can't imagine with all the imported boats in South Florida that, if this was an issue, I wouldn't have heard and wouldn't be able to even google and find any issues.
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03-21-2017, 03:11 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
As I read it, that law wouldn't prevent what the OP wants to do. The law prevents new boat sales with high copper paint, and it prevents sale of high copper paints. It doesn't outlaw what's on your boat today, nor prevent anyone from bringing such a boat into WA.
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It also states that you will be prevented on selling a used boat if the bottom has cooper bottom paint...
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03-21-2017, 04:52 PM
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#15
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
It also states that you will be prevented on selling a used boat if the bottom has cooper bottom paint...
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If that's the case, what a new business for boat yards to strip off bottom paint that contains copper. Think about the boats that have been using Trinidad SR or comperable copper containing paints for the last 20 years.
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03-21-2017, 07:56 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction
It also states that you will be prevented on selling a used boat if the bottom has cooper bottom paint...
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I'm not seeing that, either in the article or in the actual Bill. I only see two provisions.
1) Can't sell a NEW recreational boat with the offending paint.
2) Can't sell the offending paint itself.
Both have phase in dates.
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MVTanglewood.com
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03-21-2017, 08:07 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
I'm not seeing that, either in the article or in the actual Bill. I only see two provisions.
1) Can't sell a NEW recreational boat with the offending paint.
2) Can't sell the offending paint itself.
Both have phase in dates.
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That's the way I read it as well. What are they going to do, hire divers to scrape all the boats in marinas to test for copper bottom paint?
As for the phase in dates, that's the way elected officials work with unpopular legislation. By the time the law goes into effect, the voters have forgotten who voted for it.
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03-22-2017, 08:03 AM
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#18
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Guru
City: Ashland, MA
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seevee
Too much regulation and too much paperwork.
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And not just restricted to boats!!!!!!!!
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03-22-2017, 09:55 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seevee
.........Too much regulation and too much paperwork.
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There's a hope that this will change over the next eight years, at least at the federal level.
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03-22-2017, 10:00 AM
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#20
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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It must have been in an earlier bill I saw that stated by 2020 no boat could be sold, new or used with copper paint.
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