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Old 03-18-2013, 05:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
Boy! I could stand an experience such as that! My engine runs at 192 degrees. I just may try it in my Cummins 330B and if I do, I'll be sure to post the results.
Pulled from Cummins Website (may not be your exact engine but sounds about right).....192 degrees sounds perfect to me and your engines run better the hotter they are without overtemping...of course unless yu manual says differently

Jacket Water Aftercooled Engines (JWAC)
Coolant Flow to Engine Heat Exchanger................. l/min [gal/min] 204 [54]
Standard Thermostat Operating Range (Start to Open). ..C [F] 82 [180]

Standard Thermostat Operating Range (Full Open) ..... ...C [F] 93 [200]


here's another engine


COOLING SYSTEM


Max. Coolant Temperature at Engine Out
C [F] 96 [205.0]

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Old 03-18-2013, 05:18 PM   #22
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The engine Temps Dropped 5 degrees

To give you information about that. I had just replaced the heat exchangers, flushed the engines, put new hoses on and made a few trips with the all new cooling system. I had also replaced the thermostats.

The first engine I did the change on was my port. I made a trip to Catalina on the change and I saw the temp readings 175 port, 180 starboard. When I got back to port, I changed the starboard engine to Delvac 1 and then the next trip to Catalina I was reading 175 each engine. It hasn't changed since and that was 1995.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:00 PM   #23
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That's a good point, Scott. My issue is not that I don't think it will do as good, or better of a job, it's a cost vs. benefit calculation. Sure, it might to a little better, but I have a big slow motor that struggles to get to 190 degrees at 1500rpm burning 2 gph in a big iron lump that is way more stout than it needs to be. I just don't see the advantage being so great or that an extra 10% of life it may give would be a difference. I have a 27 year-old boat with 2300 hours on an engine designed for tens-of-thousands. I'd wager that even if I started abusing the motor now, it would STILL outlive the boat it is within.

If I had a newer, more efficient motor with a turbo, or a high-revving outboard, (even a gasser) I would quickly join you on your bandwagon. As it stands now, it just seems like a waste. Money I can spend on other stuff ;-)
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:01 PM   #24
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This time I agree w you 100% psneeld.

I think the problem w the early synthetics and the seals was that the synthetics shrunk the seals and the additives made the seals swell enough to cancel out the shrinking. It's possible that the variations in the performance of the synthetics re the leaking issues reported on this thread is that the additives meant to control the leaking are about as consistent as the experiences here on TF.

Of course Dino oils have no such potential for leakage and as psneeld points out the Dino oils do a very adequate job of lubrication. Millions of engines have gone long life's performing as well as can be expected.

I use Delo 30W.

Capthead,
Just an idea ... Switch back to the same brand and weight of Dino oil you were using before and see what your temps are.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:38 PM   #25
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It's good to hear some "I did this and this is what happened" ...........
Just remember though, the guy who said "I did this and this is what happened" probably didn't have a very scientific test and didn't have a control to compare data to.

I had a friend when I was a teenager who washed his car and later that day had a flat tire. His comment - I'll never wash my car again, it causes flat tires.

Now my friend was kidding, but that makes a point about the validity of some people's conclusions from what they have seen or done.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:06 PM   #26
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I totally understand the reasons concerning cost vs. benefits on an already old engine. That is a very valid point. That was never my concern.

What I had was two engines in a 1966 GB that came from Boston through the ditch and to Marina Del Rey, CA. It had it's third set of hour meters and those stopped working soon after I bought it. The engines used a ton of oil and they leaked bad.

I used Delo 40 because people "in the know" said I needed that extra weight for old tired engines. When I put Delo in and used the boat for the first 50 hours it used 3 to 4 quarts. The next 50 hours the Delo just gave up and it was two quarts each round trip to Catalina. This was my Delo experience and I was complaining about it, not the cost because there are truck places that sold it for 4.50 per gallon bulk, but because my pans under the engines filled up with oil and it smoked bad.

I changed to Rotella 15W-30. Things got much better. Now the oil would last almost the entire 100 hours before breaking down. I dropped to about 6 quarts each engine between changes.

This is why I changed to synthetic. I wanted an oil that would clean out all the carbon that's stuck in the rings causing blow by, and stop the seals from leaking. Keep in mind, I use Mobil 1 and have in everything I own since 1977.

My first post tells the story. I have a boat that I think I can take cruising and not worry about the engines. I'm even thinking I might install a bypass filter and keep the oil in longer. It will last. That's proven scientifically.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:42 PM   #27
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10w-30 Walmart 100% synth in my Lehmans for 1,000 hours and 350 hours in my Perkins genny so far and they love it. If the Amzoil SAE30 synth wasn't so expensive I would run it. The key is the 30. The Walmart synth is nearly the same price as dino Rotella and you can go twice as long so it's actually a good bit cheaper.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:51 AM   #28
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When the leading diesel engine supplier who by the way conducts the best researched and documented oriented lube oil studies and is also the largest user of dyno oil in the world says go synthetic, I'll change my mind - for those engines tested. Until then I'll listen to the diesel experts who have not yet found syns to be a magic elixir. This is not a new subject for CAT and their end users, with hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars related to diesel engine rebuilds taking place every year.

But until then all this talk about "my engines love it," "my filter barrel was clean" and feel good statements of supposed fact by end users is just that - talk. That is OK and keeps us all on our toes. More to the point, syn blends will not hurt you too much, and the marketing guys are happy selling low cost blends for 50% more than the regular stuff.

Capt head, you may want to post your findings for an old diesel on boatdiesel.com for discussion on that forum.

BTW Marin, are not your engines specified for synthetic - gas and not diesel? Once you get into the +6000 RPM range, syn oils are certainly recommended more often than not.

It is interesting to note all the NASCAR engines that are suffering lube oil failures, while running syns. Nothing is perfect I guess.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:11 AM   #29
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you can go twice as long so it's actually a good bit cheaper.
Not if your engines were under warranty still.

Also remember oil change interval has increased across the board as S in fuel has dropped during the past 20 years. Diesels today have a chart/table that relates oil change interval to fuel specs, especially sulfur. My engines have a interval of 200 to 400 hours based upon fuel S content.

On our lightly loaded, low hour and low fuel burn diesels, any reasonable oil change interval is possbile especially if you are doing an oil analysis. According to the mods on boatdiesel, engine failure due to lubrication issues is very rare. As seen there and on TF, overheating is the gremlin to watch out for.

Engines running cooler on syns you say, I always thought on a well tended engine it was the thermostats that controlled temps, silly me.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:05 AM   #30
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To put even a little more interesting info into this mix of per-boater oil recommendations and beliefs:

Due to my incessant appreciation and love for usage of classic carbureted gasoline engines with flat tappet lifters in my classic boats and cars and trucks... I use Valvoline Premium Blue Heavy Duty Diesel 15W-40 Conventional Motor Oil with an added 4 oz ZDDP. If oil level slightly falls between changes I top off with Lucas Oil Products Heavy-Duty Oil Stabilizer. I have no problems and my oil stays very clean for thousands of miles in my land vehicles and for well over 100 hours in my boats. The zinc in ZDDP works wonders to maintain lubrication barriers throughout all parts of my classic gas engines. ZDDP should not be used in any vehicle with catalytic converters it clogs/ruins them!

Just sayen!
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:12 AM   #31
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BTW Marin, are not your engines specified for synthetic - gas and not diesel? .
Correct, Tom. One is the 4-cyl boxer engine in our 2011 Subaru Forester (0-20 wt) and the other is the 5.0 liter V-8 in our 2013 Ford pickup.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:05 AM   #32
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I have had one what I would call knowledgeable mechanic reccomend synthetic oil with what I deemed cogent reasoning. He reccomended it for my 1982 MB 300 td for winter use. The Mercedes was a real PIA in the winter. anything close to zero without plugging it in was a crap shoot if it would start. Amongst other cold weather tips The MB mechanic suggested run Mobil 1, it doesn't thicken with cold as do dine oils. But he suggested to only use it during the coldest months as it advantages did not justify the cost in the warmer months. It cost twice as much. So if you change the dino twice as often the out of pocket expense is the same with the advantage that the oil is far cleaner (read soot free). I ran synthetic in my snowmobile back in the early years. It didn't smoke like dino oil to the delight of the folks following behind me, but all the literature failed to mention that it didn't protect against corrosion like the dino either. I might have been OK had I fogged the engine in the spring with dino 2 stroke, but who knew. The second season was plagued by poor mileage and performance. I pulled the head to investigate why the compression was down, and the cylinder walls made the cause obvious. I do run a synthetic blend these days in the sled because the RAVE valves don't get nearly as dirty requiring cleaning but I fog with pure dino. I run Shell Rotella in the Perkins boat engines. I change it often. They are happy with that. I am Happy with that. I love Happy.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:07 AM   #33
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Thanks for the discussion everyone. Personally, I never intended this to become argumentative, the post was "are there any synthetic users?' I wanted to compare notes with the ones who do use synthetic. I have no connection with Mobil except to buy their product.

When you look at the advantages of synthetic over dino you see;
Advantages
The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:[citation needed]
Measurably better low- and high-temperature viscosity performance at service temperature extremes
Better chemical & shear stability
Decreased evaporative loss
Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown, and oil sludge problems
Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.
Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.
Better lubrication during extreme cold weather starts
Longer engine life
Superior protection against "ash" and other deposit formation in engine hot spots (in particular in turbochargers and superchargers) for less oil burnoff and reduced chances of damaging oil passageway clogging.
Increased horsepower and torque due to less initial drag on engine
Does not contain detergents

I changed because of excessive oil use with dino oil. I have always been a "think outside the box" person. I'm not here to change anyone's mind, I just wrote about my experience and it's from more of a "wow! this stuff really works" point of view than trying to make you do this too.

I hope this clears up my intent. I'll continue to use Delvac 1 and I will continue to report honestly any and all changes with my engines as they happen.

Cheers to all and thanks for listening.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:17 AM   #34
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Thanks for the discussion everyone. Personally, I never intended this to become argumentative, the post was "are there any synthetic users?' I wanted to compare notes with the ones who do use synthetic. I have no connection with Mobil except to buy their product.

When you look at the advantages of synthetic over dino you see;
Advantages
The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:[citation needed]
Measurably better low- and high-temperature viscosity performance at service temperature extremes
Better chemical & shear stability
Decreased evaporative loss
Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown, and oil sludge problems
Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.
Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.
Better lubrication during extreme cold weather starts
Longer engine life
Superior protection against "ash" and other deposit formation in engine hot spots (in particular in turbochargers and superchargers) for less oil burnoff and reduced chances of damaging oil passageway clogging.
Increased horsepower and torque due to less initial drag on engine
Does not contain detergents

I changed because of excessive oil use with dino oil. I have always been a "think outside the box" person. I'm not here to change anyone's mind, I just wrote about my experience and it's from more of a "wow! this stuff really works" point of view than trying to make you do this too.

I hope this clears up my intent. I'll continue to use Delvac 1 and I will continue to report honestly any and all changes with my engines as they happen.

Cheers to all and thanks for listening.
Not sure you can blame excessive oil use on the fact that it was dino oil....but in your case it seems like you made a move that made you content and as long as your engine lasts a long time...good for you....especially because you didn't listen to someone who might have told you to "rebuild" right away.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:43 AM   #35
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While I was searching for a lab to send an oil analysis to, I found this little tidbit on the FAQ page of Blackstone Labs (some pretty funny stuff in there). It's interesting considering they analyze oil all day long:


What's the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.
Come on, you're holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?
Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #36
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While I was searching for a lab to send an oil analysis to, I found this little tidbit on the FAQ page of Blackstone Labs (some pretty funny stuff in there). It's interesting considering they analyze oil all day long:


What's the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.
Come on, you're holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?
Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:01 AM   #37
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Thanks for the discussion everyone. Personally, I never intended this to become argumentative,
Oh really?
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:03 AM   #38
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Engines running cooler on syns you say, I always thought on a well tended engine it was the thermostats that controlled temps, silly me.
Well tended being the operative words, this is true, however, an engine whos thermostat is wide open (max cooling) can still run hot due to other factors. Blockage in the heat exchanger, etc.
A fully opened thermostat can cool the engine only so far and then all the other components must be in good working order. ( RW Impeller, heat exchanger(s), coolant, etc.) In theory, an oil that has more lubricity, can in fact, lower the operating temp of the engine.

New cars are now going 10,000 miles between oil changes. (I don't buy in to this but many of their operating manuals say it's OK.) Many car manufacturers also recommend synthetic oil.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:18 AM   #39
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.................New cars are now going 10,000 miles between oil changes. (I don't buy in to this but many of their operating manuals say it's OK.) Many car manufacturers also recommend synthetic oil.
That's fine and when Volvo comes out with a recommendation for extended oil change intervals with synthetic oil, I'll consider changing.

The new cars use synthetic oil (and often very thin oil) to meet the government regulations for fuel economy.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #40
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Oh really?
When did I argue?
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