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Old 03-28-2013, 11:28 PM   #301
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I, the oil still looks new, crystal clear, new. What does the oil analysis say for soot, metals, water, ash, volatiles and diesel fuel? I've never seen opacity as analysis tracker
I was told they routinely operate commercial diesels 'many' thousands of hours between oil changes, particularly with modern synthetic lubricants. This sets a record for any diesel on land sea or air!

.
A review of Yanmar warranties and recommendations shows lesser hours than you were told by Laborde, more like 300 to 400 on their Tier IIIs.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:22 AM   #302
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Sunchaser,

I first became curious about synthetic oil and change interval when I found the Rotella T6 still appeared clean in my Yanmar at 150 hours. I had never seen this in any diesel engine before. I assumed it was due to quality oil, good filtration and a clean, modern engine. Since the oil appeared so clean, I began to wonder if it would be safe to run longer since the synthetic oil manufacturers use terms like 'extended life' etc. in their advertizing. Remember, I have not had any oil analysis performed so far. My only clue to the oil condition was the look and smell when it was changed, which obviously is not a very reliable way to gauge the condition. That is precisely why I am going to begin having the oil analyzed. If the chemistry is good, I am only reaching for 300 hours max.

As for the thousands of hours between diesel oil changes, there seems to be at least some anecdotal evidence to support the claims:

1. The Louisiana Department of Natural Resources published a report entitled 90,000 Mile Diesel Engine Oil Changes where they state "Sixty-thousand (60,000) mile diesel oil change intervals have been successfully achieved in fleet operation using Amsoil synthetic based oils. Amsoil has produced premium, synthetic based API approved diesel engine oils since 1972. Present fleet tests of 90,000 mile drain intervals have found the oil free and clean of deposits and suitable for continued use. Amsoil claims a four to eight percent increase in fuel economy when using their product."

2. An article about Amsoil Synthetic - 409,000 Mile Oil Change Interval
409,000-Mile Oil Change Interval with AMSOIL Synthetic 15w40 Diesel Oil

3. I also found this comment on a trucker's site regarding synthetics "Top quality synthetics like Delvac 1 are capable of going 100k in the right application. To be totally safe, the best thing to do is run it for the normal interval (6 months or 6k) and send a sample in for analysis. The lab can give you a good guesstimate on how much longer it could have safely run. Run it that far the next time and retest. A filter change can make a big difference in how long oil can be run safely, the quart of make-up oil gives a "second wind" to the TBN."

If true, these accounts do equate to oil change intervals of over a thousand hours, but definitely not 'many' thousands. Oil analysis and frequent filter changes seem to be the key elements in determining the optimum extended oil change interval.

Finally, I would always agree the safest approach is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. In my case, the only nuance is the introduction of full synthetics into the conversation. They are not mentioned in any of my Yanmar service manuals or literature, all of which was printed before they came into common usage.

Thanks for your input.

Larry
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:26 AM   #303
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A filter change can make a big difference in how long oil can be run safely, the quart of make-up oil gives a "second wind" to the TBN."

Most truck filters hold way more than a quart, so swopping the filter will add fresh chemicals.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:54 AM   #304
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Here's a simple question that could last another 50 posts.

Soot, dirt and much else gets into the lube oil if the lube oil is dino and contaminates it. But most of the contaminates are scared to death of syn oil and won't enter it. Magic?
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:15 PM   #305
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OK, OK, OK!!!

I now better understand and am confident of the chances for enhanced long term internal engine lubrication as well as no need for concern of modern day syn oil ruining old-school gaskets. I will in near future begin test-use of a high quality Synthetic Oil. I well know that the general operation and lifespan of any mechanically interactive parts is greatly influenced (improved/extended) by being sure to always keep good quality lubricants fresh and at full levels.

Next scheduled oil change interval I will install a quality synthetic oil (that has high zinc ppm) into one of my good condition (1967 to 1989) classic, flat tappet V8 gas engines. This syn oil installation will likely occur in my high performance 350 cid 325 hp 1 ton 4wd truck engine with 80K mi or in my 430 cid 360 hp Buick Wildcat at 121K mi... neither engine currently uses more than 1 pint dino oil between my 2K mi oil and filter changes; both engines are well tuned and run exceptionally strong.

From doing this test I will gain firsthand knowledge of how syn oil performs before I might also apply its use into our 1977 Tolly Cruiser’s low hours since rebuild, good condition 350 cid, 255 hp Mercruiser (GM) engines that currently use way less than I pint oil between 100 hr oil and filter changes.

I just had long conversation with Amsoil engineer... in addition to much reading of reports on syn and dino oils, considerable input from this thread's OP, as well many other interesting contributions from TF boating community participants... regarding syn ol –vs - dino oil.

Unless I was to run into some currently unexpected reason to not try synthetic oil I will post my findings as time progresses during my first syn oil test-use. Wish me luck, thanks!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:25 PM   #306
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Amsoil buys the synthetic from Mobile.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:35 PM   #307
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Well Art it sounds like you're not going to put the stuff in your boat engines. Why not. You may be hesitant and if you are you feel like you're taking a chance and things may not work out.

Now would be a good time to ask what you expect to gain w the syn oil.
Are you SURE that was an engineer you talked to? Perhaps he started out in the sales dept. Now I'm joking.

Now that you've talked to the Amsoil guy show your openness by using Mobile 1 oil.

Cap I see your post and I'm glad that's the case.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:38 PM   #308
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Here's a simple question that could last another 50 posts.

Soot, dirt and much else gets into the lube oil if the lube oil is dino and contaminates it. But most of the contaminates are scared to death of syn oil and won't enter it. Magic?
Eric - That's a darn good question and one I’ve been keeping my eye on. So far what I've learned regarding this situation:

Synthetic oil does not dissolve the soot/dirt the way dino oil does (therefore dino oil becomes intricately contaminated wherein filters cannot separate dissolved soot from dino)... but rather syn oil suspends the contaminants amongst syn oil molecules and deposits (non dissolved) contaminants into a high quality filter, of say 20 microns. Evidently this is why it is recommended to often change filters, say in 5K mi intervals. I guess even closer mileage filter changes would not be a bad idea either.

I think this is the best information gaining thread I’ve seen on TF... and its contents/meaning has good implications/learning for every person who uses any lubrication inside any machinery.

BIG Thumbs up to thread OP – Capthead!!
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:40 PM   #309
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Amsoil buys the synthetic from Mobile.
TY for heads up!
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:48 PM   #310
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What Is Lubricant Oil Soot?
Lubricant soot is a by-product of diesel combustion. Soot is formed in fuel-rich, cool regions of the combustion chamber and impinges on the cylinder wall, where it is scraped into the engine oil sump by the piston rings. Soot is partially burnt fuel which results in a heterocyclic hydrocarbon particle.

Upon entering the engine oil sump, the soot is rapidly mixed in with the bulk oil and circulates throughout the engine. As oil passes through the engine gears, the soot particles are ground into extremely fine particles, nominally 1000 Angstroms, and are maintained in suspension by the lubricant dispersants.

The soot will remain homogeneously suspended in the oil, until the soot concentration reaches a level great enough that it precipitates out of the oil. This may also result in filter plugging. Oil formulations which have high dispersancy levels will keep the soot in suspension to higher concentration levels.

Soot is a non-classical abrasive. It will erode boundary lubricated surfaces at high concentrations. This will cause severe engine wear. Some symptoms of soot induced wear include tappet polishing, cam lobe wear, rocker/crosshead wear and ring wear at top and bottom reversal locations.


Analytical Engineering, Inc. - Lubricant Oil Soot
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:10 PM   #311
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I think this is the best information gaining thread I’ve seen on TF... and its contents/meaning has good implications/learning for every person who uses any lubrication inside any machinery.
I don't know if it's the "best information gaining thread" but it is, IMO, the most thought provoking thread I've seen in a very long time. Now, if all you closet synthetic oil users would just come forward with your stories, it would be greatly appreciated. Don't worry about being labeled as "wasting your money" as that point is already on the table.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:11 PM   #312
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Well Art it sounds like you're not going to put the stuff in your boat engines. Why not. You may be hesitant and if you are you feel like you're taking a chance and things may not work out.

Now would be a good time to ask what you expect to gain w the syn oil.
Are you SURE that was an engineer you talked to? Perhaps he started out in the sales dept. Now I'm joking.

Now that you've talked to the Amsoil guy show your openness by using Mobile 1 oil.

Cap I see your post and I'm glad that's the case.
Eric - I often play with things on the side of caution... especially in items having to do with classic hydrocarbon fueled engines that cost bunches to repair/replace, and, that my classics are virtually in perfect current condition. Engine Oil Quality and Cleanliness is a BIG Thing to me... and... Syn Oil Testing-I-Shall-Go! But very carefully!! lol

Reason not at first in boat engines: As this is truly a lubrication-test in my opinion, seeing as I’ve had great luck with high quality dino oil for all my life... During this test, I’d surely rather have any problem occur with car or truck engine rather than an inside salon, under floor engine compartment boat motor - any day! Also - I can easily see all around my truck engine as the truck stands tall off the ground w/4" lifts. Not that I really expect problems to occur due to syn oil. But, cha just don't know what may occur in classic flat tappet engines. My biggest concern is still potential carbon-deposit removals from possible holes in any gaskets, and therefore oil leaks to begin. I’ve been told that modern syn oil ingredients actually remove soot (i.e. carbon) deposits in crevices for then depositing it into the oil filter. Therefore, if any of my classic engines gaskets have deteriorated areas where soot (i.e. gunk) acts as a filler... well... I simply hate a dirty bilge!

Mobil 1 may well be my choice!
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:15 PM   #313
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I don't if it's the "best information gaining thread" but it is, IMO, the most thought provoking thread I've seen in a very long time. Now, if all you closet synthetic oil users would just come forward with your stories, it would be greatly appreciated. Don't worry about being labeled as "wasting your money" as that point is already on the table.
You're BAD Walt... BAD!

I mean that in a GOOD, funny way!!
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:20 PM   #314
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Mobil 1 may well be my choice!
It's possibly mine too! (I haven't finished my investigation yet.)
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:20 PM   #315
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So Art the synthetic oil knows to put the dirt in the filter? Smart stuff.

Walt I used Mobile 1 in something that died a long time ago.

Couldn't resist.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:23 PM   #316
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It's possibly mine too! (I haven't finished my investigation yet.)
Walt - Let me (us all) know what you come up with... I'll do same! - Art
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:25 PM   #317
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So Art the synthetic oil knows to put the dirt in the filter? Smart stuff.

Walt I used Mobile 1 in something that died a long time ago.

Couldn't resist.
Eric - Die due to lube problem??
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #318
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walt - let me (us all) know what you come up with... I'll do same! - art
wilco............
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:42 PM   #319
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Art - What about the part syn part dino oils like Rotella T-5? They are supposed to have a little of the better of both worlds with even less of the negative.

For years I followed the discussions on Fort Truck Enthusiasts and the Diesel Stop boards and many of the old time pros were really for the blended oils.

Look here... Shell Rotella® Products - Shell Rotella

You may find it interesting also.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:42 PM   #320
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Walt I used Mobile 1 in something that died a long time ago.
It was probably that turpentine that you added since it worked so well on your teak....
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