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Old 02-24-2012, 07:11 PM   #21
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Yes, 2 layers of 3/4 ply.* Go to a real lumber yard and tell them you want at least 5 ply AC plywood, more plys are better.* fir would be best but if water gets in it really won't matter.* Glue together with thickened epoxy, west or System three would be my suggestion.* Do the final trimming to shape, rout the edges with at least a 3/8 radius bit* so the glass forms smoothly. . .

*

I like to lay out the future penetrations, like where the mounts will screw to the underside and rout out an area and fill it with an epoxy/glass mixture so there is no chance of water getting to the plywood core.

Yes, there is a little extra work to save quite a bit of money but if you think about this logically, you can build yourself a nice swimstep, that will last, for a reasonable amount of money.

*
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:15 PM   #22
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

I agree..I have pretty extensive glassing experience so this is the easiest least costly platform for me to make.* I would have tried the plastic decking as a "lookalike" to the current platform but too springy.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Boathommy wrote:
Yes, 2 layers of 3/4 ply.* Go to a real lumber yard and tell them you want at least 5 ply AC plywood, more plys are better.* fir would be best but if water gets in it really won't matter.* Glue together with thickened epoxy, west or System three would be my suggestion.* Do the final trimming to shape, rout the edges with at least a 3/8 radius bit* so the glass forms smoothly. . .

*

I like to lay out the future penetrations, like where the mounts will screw to the underside and rout out an area and fill it with an epoxy/glass mixture so there is no chance of water getting to the plywood core.

Yes, there is a little extra work to save quite a bit of money but if you think about this logically, you can build yourself a nice swimstep, that will last, for a reasonable amount of money.

*
*The only problem with this procedure is the use of AC plywood. ACX is made with an A grade face, a C grade (tight knot) back, and D grade core. D grade veneers can have voids as large as 2.5" or more. These voids are where the problems begin. With differing outside and inside temperatures, condensation will lead to rot from the inside. This is where marine ply pays for itself. There are no core voids, and the face and back are both A grade. The other advantage is that there are lengths available up to 16' if my memory serves me.

*The superior strength of the marine ply will allow reducing to a total 1" net thickeness. IMHO of course.


-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 08:47:55 PM
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:46 PM   #24
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Scott:

When I owned a Seabird 37 (Sail) I added a swimgrid. It was a great addition. Many of the SB 37s added swimgrids, as it seemed the right thing to do. Many different appearances, Teak, Stainless box tubing, Plywood, Fibreglass. Mine was Fibreglass. I designed it and had it fabricated, as a class project when my brother was teaching plastics at a high school. It only cost me for materials, so was quite cheap. I put several grab holes along the stern of its perimeter, which were handy when swimming, and to which the dinghy painter could attach. The supports were Stainless flat bar with Stainless tubing on the long side of the triangle. Those likely cost as much as the FG. Long time ago so I don't recall the numbers.

Mark:

Your boat looks too good to go with anything less than what it should have had when it was new, TEAK! It won't matter in a couple of years that you had to pay an extra $500 for materials, just to get the best. Try wholesale hardwood places. You are going to be buying enough that they will talk to you.

When I redid my swimstep, I bought two teak boards. First I measured what I would need of 14 ft stock, that was the first board. then I measured what I would need in 2 or 3 ft stock, for between the openings, that was the second board, and because I didn't need a 14 ft length for this, it was less costly per bd ft. Mine was for a 13" extension of the old swimgrid, so was about $500 (at the time, 2007 IIRC).

The bronze supports also needed to be replaced, as one was cracked and all were designed for a 21" swimgrid. The new Stainless supports were about $1000.

I was able to re-use the old teak swimgrid, by flipping it over and cleaning it up, so with the new boards attached on the side against the transom, it all looked new. now that it has aged gracefully, all is silver coloured and no-one knows where the new ends and the old begins. I also had my swim ladder lengthened so it would flip down over the edge and flip up to rest against the transom, just like before.

Before and after pix.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:07 PM   #25
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Boathommy wrote:
Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
You know what they say about opinions!!! Personally, I don't see plywood of any sort as a solution that I would use, but choosing ACX over marine plywood is not a good choice in many ways. You can do it the Walmart way or the right way. Your call.*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:17:25 PM


-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:18:28 PM
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:05 PM   #27
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Must be nice to have an unlimited budget. Please keep us poor folks in your prayers.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:07 AM   #28
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

I agree with the ACX version. Good ACX (not from home depot) is frequently superior to many of the "marine plywood stock" out there. Using it as a core for swim platforms is perfectly ok in my opinion. The total coverage with epoxy fg (WEST system, not necessarily west brand) is the key. No scarfing required, just staggered joints on the 2 layers.
A well executed project like this will probably outlast the owner.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:27 AM   #29
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Quote:
Carey wrote:Boathommy wrote:
Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
You know what they say about opinions!!! Personally, I don't see plywood of any sort as a solution that I would use, but choosing ACX over marine plywood is not a good choice in many ways. You can do it the Walmart way or the right way. Your call.*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:17:25 PM



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:18:28 PM

*Many expensive yachts have fiberglass platforms.* No one will see the core and your opinion on plywood is just that.* Many pro boatbuilders know when to use the good stuff and when you dont have too...

Calling someone's idea (not the final product)*the WalMart option could lead into name/boat calling and would be a shame for you. You have no idea how the final product will look, function or last.

Thanks sailor of fortune..another voice of reason.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:12 AM   #30
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Quote:
psneeld wrote:Carey wrote:Boathommy wrote:
Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
You know what they say about opinions!!! Personally, I don't see plywood of any sort as a solution that I would use, but choosing ACX over marine plywood is not a good choice in many ways. You can do it the Walmart way or the right way. Your call.*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:17:25 PM



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:18:28 PM

*Many expensive yachts have fiberglass platforms.* No one will see the core and your opinion on plywood is just that.* Many pro boatbuilders know when to use the good stuff and when you dont have too...

Calling someone's idea (not the final product)*the WalMart option could lead into name/boat calling and would be a shame for you. You have no idea how the final product will look, function or last.

Thanks sailor of fortune..another voice of reason.

*Golleeeee guys. I didn't mean to offend you, only to make the point that cutting corners is not always a good idea. In my mind, the little extra expense on the front end would be paid back with a better finished product and more longevity. Personally, I would hate to expend the energy to craft a nice looking product, only to have it fail a short distance down the road.

And given your sensitivity on this simple sharing of opinions, I recommend you definitely not go "off the deep end".
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:33 PM   #31
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RE: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Well since I do like the slat look I'm going to go with Ipe. Seems I have two construction methods to choose from:

1** Epoxy and glue each slat to the adjoining one and or epoxy together and epoxy and screw a batten under the platform that will ride on the struts.

2** Epoxy together and run a threaded rod through the whole assembly and then add epoxied and screwed battens riding on the struts.

The problem I see with the rod is lining up the holes as most of the work would have to be pre-drilled as well as the loss of strength where the holes are as my platform will be a finished 1" thick. I would think the rods would need to be at least a 1/4-5/16"
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:33 PM   #32
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Quote:
Carey wrote:psneeld wrote:Carey wrote:Boathommy wrote:
Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
You know what they say about opinions!!! Personally, I don't see plywood of any sort as a solution that I would use, but choosing ACX over marine plywood is not a good choice in many ways. You can do it the Walmart way or the right way. Your call.*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:17:25 PM



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:18:28 PM

*Many expensive yachts have fiberglass platforms.* No one will see the core and your opinion on plywood is just that.* Many pro boatbuilders know when to use the good stuff and when you dont have too...

Calling someone's idea (not the final product)*the WalMart option could lead into name/boat calling and would be a shame for you. You have no idea how the final product will look, function or last.

Thanks sailor of fortune..another voice of reason.

*Golleeeee guys. I didn't mean to offend you, only to make the point that cutting corners is not always a good idea. In my mind, the little extra expense on the front end would be paid back with a better finished product and more longevity. Personally, I would hate to expend the energy to craft a nice looking product, only to have it fail a short distance down the road.

And given your sensitivity on this simple sharing of opinions, I recommend you definitely not go "off the deep end".

*Well..ya did... and ya don't even have the facts straight about quality of products for their application.*

Plus...it's not about sensitivity it's about posting a way of doing things for others to learn how others may do it.*

Some of us have older more beat up trawlers and putting a stainless/teak platform would be idiotic given the state of the rest of the boat without a $50,000 makeover worth as much as the boat.

So a simple to construct, nicely finished, epoxy, ply*and glass, properly done made from materials that WILL DO THE JOB AS WELL AS OVERPRICED/NO BETTER PRODUCTS is hardly a "Walmart" job.....it just makes the most sense.


-- Edited by psneeld on Saturday 25th of February 2012 01:35:27 PM
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:09 PM   #33
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Mark:

The original construction, slat style, is glued and screwed, one slat at a time. The piece I added, I epoxied (only). I had one failure where the epoxy let go, which I was able to repair without taking the whole thing apart, so I would recommend screws. I have also had a failure of a joint in the old part, more difficult to repair, due to the presence of screws.
Epoxy doesn't like to adhere well to teak unless you get all, really ALL of the natural oil off with acetone before applying the epoxy. I don't know whether Ipe is as oily, but if you assume it is, you can't go wrong.
So start with the outside edge, screw the pieces to the back side of it and work your way towards the transom. Good luck. Post pictures.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:22 PM   #34
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

I think all of us tend to offer advice based upon our own comfort zones. Alternative Swim Platform Materials was the title. I made my recommendation based upon my comfort with steel work and the powder coating process itself. Nothing else. Some folks have differing comfort levels.

That said, name calling and stereotyping either as cheap or rich is counterproductive to the thread.

JMHO
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:01 PM   #35
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Quote:
CPseudonym wrote:
I think all of us tend to offer advice based upon our own comfort zones. Alternative Swim Platform Materials was the title. I made my recommendation based upon my comfort with steel work and the powder coating process itself. Nothing else. Some folks have differing comfort levels.

That said, name calling and stereotyping either as cheap or rich is counterproductive to the thread.

JMHO
what's the secret to powder coating aluminum in the marine environment?

seems like most powder coated aluminum sooner or later bubbles...and I mean within 5 years or significantly less...yeooow!

most guys I know require epoxy coatings sprayed.

*
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:02 PM   #36
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Quote:
Old Stone wrote:
DaddyO - I'm staying out of this one, but have to make one comment. I was very surprised to hear IPE suggested. I am NOT saying not to use it, but when we started using it on some of our buildings in the city, no carpenter or wood shop wanted to work with it because it is so hard it eats saws, blades, and drills alive, so check into that. Our other problem with it was nothing would stick to it ( I just don't know about epoxy with it), and we never found an acceptable finish for it either. Nothing would soak into it, it is so hard. One thing, though, it is the only wood in NYC that meets all fire codes on it's own with no coating. Again, I am not saying don't use it, just ask some carpenters what they think about it before you buy. Just wanted to mention my experience with it, not debate anyone.
*Good advice Old Stone...heard the same...great for many projects but have heard the same so it would surpass my definition of a simple project!
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:04 PM   #37
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

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CPseudonym wrote:
I always thought if I find myself in this position I'd seriously consider 3/4" aluminum plate cut to shape(slots and all) and have it epoxy powder coated the color of your choice. Wouldn't be a budget saver but the maintenance should be severely curtailed...
*
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:18 PM   #38
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

Quote:
CPseudonym wrote:CPseudonym wrote:
I always thought if I find myself in this position I'd seriously consider 3/4" aluminum plate cut to shape(slots and all) and have it epoxy powder coated the color of your choice. Wouldn't be a budget saver but the maintenance should be severely curtailed...
*

*I'm that unfamiliar...but when I say epoxy sprayed...definitely not powder coated. What's epoxy powder coating compared to what many marine metals are coated with?

*
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:23 PM   #39
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I'm clueless as to the materials of the Coot's swim platform beyond the stainless steel tubing.* Didn't order it so received without cost.* If it becomes a maintenance "nightmare," I'll remove it.


-- Edited by markpierce on Saturday 25th of February 2012 05:29:54 PM
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:00 PM   #40
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re: Alternative Swim Platform Materials

They have some wonderful expanded metal frames that we use for building docks and piers. Aluminum frame and this stuff would be awesome. If anyone reads this and is interested in what it is i'll find out, pm me.
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