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Old 01-21-2014, 12:20 PM   #21
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I think LarryM (in your other thread) is on the right track as far as the high voltage out of the alternator. Have you checked to see what the voltage is on the control voltage input to the regulator is (sometimes called the sensing input)? If that voltage is more than about a half of volt lower than your alternator output, then the regulator is going to tell the alternator to put out more. This low voltage on the control voltage input could be very low battery voltage, control voltage wire not conected or bad connection to the regulator and maybe even the incorrect resistance in your ballast wire that someone mentioned. I would take a reading on the control voltage wire and see what that is.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:41 PM   #22
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maybe I missed something...how does slightly higher than normal voltage burn up wiring?
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:33 PM   #23
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High voltage

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Originally Posted by jstauffer View Post
I think LarryM (in your other thread) is on the right track as far as the high voltage out of the alternator. Have you checked to see what the voltage is on the control voltage input to the regulator is (sometimes called the sensing input)? If that voltage is more than about a half of volt lower than your alternator output, then the regulator is going to tell the alternator to put out more. This low voltage on the control voltage input could be very low battery voltage, control voltage wire not conected or bad connection to the regulator and maybe even the incorrect resistance in your ballast wire that someone mentioned. I would take a reading on the control voltage wire and see what that is.
I spent to much time looking in the wrong area. I found a ground wire of a battery isolator so connected it to the starting battery and voltage dropped below 14 so I hope that is what was causing the issue
Would a battery isolator ground cause an overcharge?
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:56 PM   #24
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An ungrounded battery isolator won't isolate or combine batteries in which the charge current won't get to the battery from the alternator. The sense wire from the regulator won't detect a voltage rise from the alternator so will keep ratcheting up alternator output until it does or it imolates itself. My guess is yes that could cause it.

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Old 01-21-2014, 09:07 PM   #25
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I found a ground wire of a battery isolator so connected it to the starting battery and voltage dropped below 14 so I hope that is what was causing the issue
Would a battery isolator ground cause an overcharge?

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No. What you are thinking is an isolator ground is not a ground. Isolators do not have grounds like other equipment, motors, lights,electronics. That lead was a 12V pos. and connecting it to the battery fixed it
BECAUSE
the alter. regulator has a remote sensing lead that went to that battery. Without the connection the regulator was not sensing the battery voltage building so it jacked the alternator output voltage up to try to compensate.

Isolators use diodes to 'isolate' the batteries and prevent current backflow or draining of batteries unintentionally. They also cause a Vdrop of between 0.5 and 0.75 volts depending upon the diodes used. That sense lead is one way of compensating for the Vdrop of the isolator but of course, as happened to you, can cause trouble if all is not connected properly.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by tpbrady View Post
An ungrounded battery isolator won't isolate or combine batteries in which the charge current won't get to the battery from the alternator. The sense wire from the regulator won't detect a voltage rise from the alternator so will keep ratcheting up alternator output until it does or it imolates itself. My guess is yes that could cause it.

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Sounds like my drama may be over
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by C lectric View Post
I found a ground wire of a battery isolator so connected it to the starting battery and voltage dropped below 14 so I hope that is what was causing the issue
Would a battery isolator ground cause an overcharge?

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__________________________________________________ __________

No. What you are thinking is an isolator ground is not a ground. Isolators do not have grounds like other equipment, motors, lights,electronics. That lead was a 12V pos. and connecting it to the battery fixed it
BECAUSE
the alter. regulator has a remote sensing lead that went to that battery. Without the connection the regulator was not sensing the battery voltage building so it jacked the alternator output voltage up to try to compensate.

Isolators use diodes to 'isolate' the batteries and prevent current backflow or draining of batteries unintentionally. They also cause a Vdrop of between 0.5 and 0.75 volts depending upon the diodes used. That sense lead is one way of compensating for the Vdrop of the isolator but of course, as happened to you, can cause trouble if all is not connected properly.
I connected it to the negative post on the starting battery so are you saying it should be on the positive side
It was a black wire
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by yoeman View Post
I connected it to the negative post on the starting battery so are you saying it should be on the positive side
It was a black wire
Egads Might I suggest three things
  1. Good insurance
  2. A good marine electrician
  3. No sleepovers until problem(s) rectified
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:01 AM   #29
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Holy Shimblefinny.
I'm going to suggest that you confirm very carefully where that wire was originally connected , the other end, when you first found it. If it truly was connected to a BATTERY ISOLATOR at the one end then the other end should go to the battery positive.

BUT BE ABSOLUTELY SURE because if you and I are wrong you could have serious trouble.

You could end up with 24V the way it is.

I have seen to darn many boats wired with whatever is handy and positive and negative wires improperly identified. Maybe the colour code tape fell off. Unfortunately black is ubiquitous for battery cable and often was the only choice so had to be colour coded. Should be done at BOTH ends.

The most recent, a friends boat was done like this and has a rats nest of connections at the batteries and during a recent battery change a + wire got misconnected and blew some gear from the 24V. All from no marking or coding. I'll try help him when I get home.

Disconnect it from the battery you just connected it to. Use a Vmeter to check the lead to ground. There should be no voltage. Then start the engine with the wire securely out of the way. If it then goes to 12 or so volts it is a positive wire, not negative. Just be sure the originally connected end is attached to the ISOLATOR output terminal.

AND THEN MARK IT with red tape and cover that with clear heat shrink tube so it doesn't come off OR of course Red heat shrink tubing. Assuming of course I'm right this time.

If at this point you are not positive then disconnect that wire, STOP and call someone in and get help. Unfortunately , over the net like this things can be too easily be missed or misunderstood with disastrous results.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:12 AM   #30
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I did go back over the setup and found the 1 positive wire went to the isolator from start battery 1 and positive wire 2 to isolator from start battery 2 the black small wire coming from the bottom of my isolator went to battery 1 ground so all good
My issues is that the alternator from port engine charges the house bank 8 6 volts while the starboard charges the 2 start battery's that have the isolator
The helm gauges show voltages as high as 16 volts in cruise and low idle around 13 volt My meter tested volts at 14.7 at the start battery's
Is this a big concern ? My battery's are almost 6 years old but the start battery's test ok I just added water to all house battery but did not test them yet
I do leave the a/c chargers on full time so they should be fully charged
Thanks for all the help
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:32 AM   #31
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I did go back over the setup and found the 1 positive wire went to the isolator from start battery 1 and positive wire 2 to isolator from start battery 2 the black small wire coming from the bottom of my isolator went to battery 1 ground so all good
My issues is that the alternator from port engine charges the house bank 8 6 volts while the starboard charges the 2 start battery's that have the isolator
The helm gauges show voltages as high as 16 volts in cruise and low idle around 13 volt My meter tested volts at 14.7 at the start battery's
Is this a big concern ? My battery's are almost 6 years old but the start battery's test ok I just added water to all house battery but did not test them yet
I do leave the a/c chargers on full time so they should be fully charged
Thanks for all the help
Bob, first up, don`t go making virtually the same post in multiple places. People see one, then the other, and get confused where to reply.
Most people worry about batteries with low voltage.Someone who knows will surely respond, meanwhile here`s some thoughts.
*How did you test the batteries, simple voltage test, hydrometer, did you let them rest/apply a load to remove the surface charge?
*Is the new charge controller adjustable? What`s its output?
*You should test your house batts, properly. Could heavy charging disguise tired batts?
* What happens when you use the house bank normally, does the state of charge nosedive?
My battery voltages gauges don`t vary 3 volts between idle and cruise, or at all. To me,that`s odd. Over to the electricians.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:46 AM   #32
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I would quit trying to fix something that needs to be done over.

The wires are burnt. You are going to have to replace them anyway.

Start from scratch and do the entire thing new.

label every wire at both ends.

6 year old batteries replace them.

Big job but somebody has to do it.
At least you will know everything about your boats electrical system.

I wouldn't take that boat to the end of the slip the way it is.

SD
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:59 AM   #33
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[QUOTE=skipperdude;207966]I would quit trying to fix something that needs to be done over.

The wires are burnt. You are going to have to replace them anyway.

Start from scratch and do the entire thing new.

label every wire at both ends.

6 year old batteries replace them.

Big job but somebody has to do it.
At least you will know everything about your boats electrical system.

I wouldn't take that boat to the end of the slip the way it is.

SD[/QUOT
That's also part of the issue All wiring was done 4 years ago and I don't have a schematic
Im starting over
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:30 PM   #34
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[QUOTE=yoeman;207976]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post
I would quit trying to fix something that needs to be done over.

The wires are burnt. You are going to have to replace them anyway.

Start from scratch and do the entire thing new.

label every wire at both ends.

6 year old batteries replace them.

Big job but somebody has to do it.
At least you will know everything about your boats electrical system.

I wouldn't take that boat to the end of the slip the way it is.

SD[/QUOT
That's also part of the issue All wiring was done 4 years ago and I don't have a schematic
Im starting over
Mechanical, electrical and plumbing. The three major systems on any boat.

I have rebuilt all three on my boat. If anything goes wrong I know just what to do. Understanding is half the battle.

I didn't do it because I wanted to. Where I live there is no boat yard.
Either fix it yourself or don't use the boat.

Like my signature says. If you can't fix it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat.

I can repair anything on my boat. Because I have to be able to.

Don't fret it. A little down time but once you get into it it's fun.

Sd
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