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06-28-2016, 04:32 PM
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#1
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Veteran Member
City: White Rock
Vessel Name: Mojo
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34 tricabin
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
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6bta 5.9 turbo
Low hour engines
Would black soot and small amount of oil be an issue
I'm looking at why my 3788 only pulls 2200 rpm at wot
I've looked at all the other possible issues
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06-28-2016, 05:28 PM
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#2
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Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,785
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2,200 rpm at wot vs 2,600, 2,800 rpm or 3,000 rpm rated (depending on model) is way over propped and you are damaging your engine. Not enough information in your post to comment further. I suspect that you need a complete servicing of the raw water and air cooler system before going further.
David
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06-28-2016, 05:31 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: New England and Canada to Florida
Vessel Name: Tadhana
Vessel Model: Helmsman 38 Pilothouse
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 596
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The crank case breather has a check valve. sometimes they stick open and then you get extra oil into the air intake, and you may even see oil dripping out of the air sep.
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06-28-2016, 05:38 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
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There was a lot of information and ideas thrown around on your last recent post on this issue and I think the better question is this...
What is the possibility that both turbo's have the exact same problem at the exact same time?
"Would black soot and small amount of oil be an issue"
To answer this question with the information posted and just this one picture I would say these look very typical of many turbo's I have seen in various Bayliners and Sea Rays. Can you get a boost reading even with a temporary gage?
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06-28-2016, 06:51 PM
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#5
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Veteran Member
City: White Rock
Vessel Name: Mojo
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34 tricabin
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadhana
The crank case breather has a check valve. sometimes they stick open and then you get extra oil into the air intake, and you may even see oil dripping out of the air sep.
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I added the pictures and did have another post with more info on the low power
I was told that $1700 was the cost to rebuild the one turbo
So don't want to make the mistake
Props are clean
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06-28-2016, 10:21 PM
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#6
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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When was the last time the engines made their rated rpm?
What has changed since then?
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06-29-2016, 12:06 AM
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#7
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TF Site Team/Forum Founder
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
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I hate to say this but many times this is a mental issue. We chase problems down the wrong rabbit hole while totally ignoring advice given. I see it over and over and over. People keep trying to bang you over the head with the most likely solution but you are too far down the wrong path to listen. YOU ARE LIKELY OVERPROPPED!!!! I know of a person that chased every possible solution expect the one that was causing the problem....right up until the point where holes were burned into the pistons. Listen up!!!!! When people like Ski say something....it should be like EF Hutton!!!!!
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
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06-29-2016, 06:22 AM
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#8
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Guru
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
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"I hate to say this but many times this is a mental issue. We chase problems down the wrong rabbit hole while totally ignoring advice given. I see it over and over and over. People keep trying to bang you over the head with the most likely solution but you are too far down the wrong path to listen. YOU ARE LIKELY OVERPROPPED!!!! I know of a person that chased every possible solution expect the one that was causing the problem....right up until the point where holes were burned into the pistons. Listen up!!!!! When people like Ski say something....it should be like EF Hutton!!!!!"
Baker has a great summary posted.
If you want to hear a different suggestion here I would suggest that you somehow secure some additional information so that folks are not attempting to diagnose an issue from one picture.
Things like this....
- What is the boost readings at various rpm from 1800 to max?
- Do your trim tabs full work? (that boat needs max tabs to reach planning angles)
- What are your curremt prop specs? D X P X number of blades and material)
- What are your trans ratios?
- When was the last time your boat achieved planning speeds and correct rpm?
- Over how long of a time period did this problem happen?
- What other symptoms do you have? (soot, temps, high idle rpm readings, etc)
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06-29-2016, 07:59 AM
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#9
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,121
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Nobody mentioned a fouled prop!! Dramatic impact on WOT!!
Assuming (not clear from posting) that engine did reach WOT in the past and prop has not been changed, then how could engine be overpropped??
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06-29-2016, 08:41 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
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"Nobody mentioned a fouled prop!! Dramatic impact on WOT!!
Assuming (not clear from posting) that engine did reach WOT in the past and prop has not been changed, then how could engine be overpropped??"
You would have had to read the other post from a couple of days ago. If you so desire the link is right here.....
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...rpm-26830.html
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06-29-2016, 10:38 AM
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#11
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TF Site Team/Forum Founder
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs
Nobody mentioned a fouled prop!! Dramatic impact on WOT!!
Assuming (not clear from posting) that engine did reach WOT in the past and prop has not been changed, then how could engine be overpropped??
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I guess the proper term here would be overloaded. We still do not know if it used to reach WOT and now it does not. But you can overload a boat that was previously perform well by a fouled bottom or fouled props.
Another thing not discussed is while it may appear both engines are suffering the same problem, could there be an engine that is malfunctioning(ie turbo) and causing the other engine to be overloaded??? I think I read a case on boat diesel where the HEALTHY engine was belching smoke because it turns out, it was the only one trying to do work while the other engine had a slipping transmission or something like that. Bottom line, a fault of one engine made it appear that the good engine was faulty.
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
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06-29-2016, 11:03 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
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"Assuming (not clear from posting) that engine did reach WOT in the past and prop has not been changed, then how could engine be overpropped??""
The OP - Yoeman is posting on the BOC as well as the trawler forum.
I just saw a few posts over there that indicates he has bought at least 2 maybe more boats very recently through an auction with no background on the boats and no sea trails.
Based upon that and the previous posts here I would guess that we have all the information he has so far on this new to him boat.
When and if any additional data become available I am sure folks here could narrow this down quickly - until then it is just a wild ass guess.
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06-29-2016, 02:09 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,440
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not again?????
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06-29-2016, 02:21 PM
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#14
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Guru
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,920
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Not enough info. 2200 WOT is so far below rated WOT that it's hard to know where to start.
Read David's and Ski's post again, they are both experts and will save you much time and money if you listen.
And read Bakers post again. I could be and probably am the guy Baker refereed to as chasing the rat down the wrong hole. I was overpropped and got the reman to prove it.
It probably is the obvious problem even if you don't want to believe it.
__________________
Tim
Tampa Bay
Carver 355 ACMY Twin Cummins Diesels Sold
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07-01-2016, 05:39 AM
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#15
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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Perhaps the PO installed a set of cruising props and WOT cruising is no longer contemplated?
Black soot is the usual sign of a prop being run at an RPM too great for it.
Try 1800RPM or so to see if she runs well there as that probably was the goal.
Even 15-1600 might be a great cruise.
Not every owner wants to tow water skiers.
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07-01-2016, 12:15 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: hawaii
Vessel Name: #31
Vessel Model: ex-Navy MUB 50 fish/cruise
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 873
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I concur with FF, however if overpropped is going to be considered normal, and the engine run at reduced rpm, the throttle should be limited to eliminate the possibility of overstressing the engine.
The seller should also disclose such information upfront.
I'm curious as to what max rpm is out of gear?
Envirovent is an aftermarket blowby separator system from Seaboard Marine that works well for the Cummins B's and C's, worth looking into.
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07-01-2016, 05:33 PM
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#17
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Veteran Member
City: Terrell
Vessel Name: Willie Pearl
Vessel Model: Seahorse 54 Sedan
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 71
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What is the EGT.......was mentioned about over proped or fouled if EGT's are higher 1000 1300 I agree with proper symptom
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07-04-2016, 09:50 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoeman
I added the pictures and did have another post with more info on the low power
I was told that $1700 was the cost to rebuild the one turbo
So don't want to make the mistake
Props are clean
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So put a link into your post so we can read it without a great pia search. I tried a search but no dice.
Help us help you. Or repost all the other info.
I agree, no where enough info to hazard any kind of reasonable suggestions.
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07-07-2016, 09:10 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,414
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I suspect this a dead issue since the O.P. hasn,t replied but
SOOT
Yes soot, if it is indeed soot, is an issue. That is most likley an exhaust leak. Soot from that will quickly plug air filters. Engines are excellent vacuum cleaners. A plugged air filter can cause poor performance and often heavy black smoke at the transom.
Soot will also make a big mess. You may have to watch while the boat is run to locate exactly where it is coming from. Soot often leaves telltale blackening where it leaks from so you may find the leak with a close examination of the entire exhaust .
Edit. Sooting in the engine compartment is what I was referring to.
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07-07-2016, 10:05 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: Sidney
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,258
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If he's not coming back, I don't feel bad about a sidebar...what are "spooling" and "droop."?
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