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Old 07-09-2014, 02:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I need to be doing the same thing soon, any more pics you can provide would help me evaluate how much work on my end. I have the same issue. Thanks very much for posting and sharing, I'm looking at a similar job myself. Do you have to do anything with your head liner or work around the support beams in the pilot house? I will need to do something around these.

Thanks!
The headliner seems OK for now..it's just a door skin like plywood with vinyl glued to it but it's solid for now.

Because of the extent of the "grand cover-up"....not sure when I'll get to the beams and overhead. The beams seem to be the same...a couple layers of bad veneer over something more solid...I'm guessing just laminated ply...but as I said...haven't and won't get there for awahile. The quick spruce up will be paint the overhead...eventually remove or just cut up with decent access....put in good clear cable runs and then I may foam it or try and lay in as much insulation as possible...then cover the whole thing with something thin and new light fixtures.
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Old 07-09-2014, 02:58 PM   #22
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No matter what the final wall covering is the rot will have to be dealt with. There is a place in Michigan that has veneer rolls at very attractive prices and a HUGE selection...Oakwood Veneer as I recall. Nicely priced also. I veneered out my 34 Mainship, but the paintable textured wallpaper looks far better with the teak trim high lighting.
thanks...

with all the rotten veneer I've carried off the boat, the table saw cutting the bead board all day and making a wooden cover box for the assistance towboat...people at the marina have started to exclaim...

"I didn't know that was a wooden boat!!"

If it can rot in the future...it's life on my boat is coming to an end soon enough if practical...probably no to the veneer and I do like the painted wall paper!!
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:39 PM   #23
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Wax paper

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Mule, great tip! I checked out the web site of the company you mentioned. Lots of great advice and tutorials. Wood Veneer: Exotic Wood Veneer Sheet Manufacturer: Burl Veneer | Oakwood Veneer Company

Apparently you "can" veneer over top of existing veneer if it's still sound and you use the right glue and backer.
I looked through Oakwoods instructions. I just skimmed so I may have missed it. Anyway, when using contact cement 2surfaces have to be coated. If they touch in the wrong places you are hosed.... For instance you are going to cover a large surface, you have dry fitted, your cement has flashed, you are ready to go and you miss your mark by 3/4 inch and it has touched...you may have to start over, possibly not even being able to salvage the veneer. It is critical to DIRTFT (do it right the first time). Here is your ins policy. After you have rolled on ur c cement to the veneer, cover the sticky side with wax paper, mate the upper edge, get it right and stuck THEN peel off the wax paper as u "iron or smooth" the recently perfectly dry fitted section on perfectly, thereby DIRTFT.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:32 PM   #24
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An update on the interior paneling....

Verified the construction was a relatively thin plywood structure bonded onto the glass cabin structure (which is relatively thin glass and gel) covered by a thin (4 layer) teak veneer on the inside. The proof was the magic marker notes between the ply and the veneer. Pic #1.

The teak veneer was put on with what appears to be contact cement.

The ply doesn't even come together in the corners of the cabin and it appears that just polyester filler is used to bulk up the corner....pic #2.

Believing what you read and hear from other boaters about the quality of construction about a particular brand of boats is met with amazement once you start tearing into a boat.

Often I've chuckled when people say "boy...they are built like tanks" about certain brands that I have gotten to know a little more intimately than the average boater.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:22 PM   #25
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Psneeld didn't buy a POS, he bought a boat the PO didn't maintain as well as it should have been. Unless you bought new, we all did that. I bought Lollygag knowing there is rot under one portlight in the V-berth. There is also some delam in the underlayment by the forward head. Leaks in the heads that have been fixed but the damage left alone. All the teak interior needs to be lightly sanded and refinished. May even have some soft spots on the deck. So? I based my price on what I knew I had to fix and what I thought might be lurking unseen after 35 years. Now that I'm into it, I really like the boat and hope I live long enough to fix and improve everything I want to.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:24 PM   #26
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Assuming your leaving the ply in place, I'm curious if the veneer came cleanly away from the ply? ie: if someone else chose to do this would the remaining ply be a suitable surface for re-veneering? Was the ply under the windows in reasonable condition?
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:34 PM   #27
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Psneeld didn't buy a POS, he bought a boat the PO didn't maintain as well as it should have been. Unless you bought new, we all did that. I bought Lollygag knowing there is rot under one portlight in the V-berth. There is also some delam in the underlayment by the forward head. Leaks in the heads that have been fixed but the damage left alone. All the teak interior needs to be lightly sanded and refinished. May even have some soft spots on the deck. So? I based my price on what I knew I had to fix and what I thought might be lurking unseen after 35 years. Now that I'm into it, I really like the boat and hope I live long enough to fix and improve everything I want to.
Well usually by definition something left to rot at some point becomes a POS to many....maybe not all people...but if I gave you a tour...you wouldn't be impressed.

I've been working pretty non-stop for 8 months/year for 3 years around an on call assistance towing job....granted I live aboard which requires doing things the hard way and keeping mess under control...but I wouldn't wish this boat on anyone....but I had my reasons.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:47 PM   #28
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Assuming your leaving the ply in place, I'm curious if the veneer came cleanly away from the ply? ie: if someone else chose to do this would the remaining ply be a suitable surface for re-veneering? Was the ply under the windows in reasonable condition?
For the most part the ply is solid...good news for all of us . Many people think their soft decks and walls are rotten...probably not...just delaminated and the wood may be wet but probably not rotten.

Yes I could have relaminated a teak veneer back over it but I hate the look so I went with the pine beadboard...In my mind way more traditional...especially of workboats than dark teak. The veneer on my boat comes away so cleanly it strips off with two fingers and in long sheets up to a foot wide....wider if I'm careful. Some of the bottom layer that was contact cemented down is a problem but not huge if I get a wide putty knife undet it and apply steady pressure. If I had the time slot..I probably could have stripped it all off the inside of my saloon in 2 days max.

Around the windows ply under the veneer is solid except in the corners that stayed wet most of the time....they were easily cut out with an oscillating tool and a small piece of ply epoxied back in with filler. If I wasn't on call with my job and living aboard...I could have stripped the veneer, beadboarded and painted all well within a week of 8hr days. Fortunately my windows are new aluminum frame clamp style. meaning the window goes on the outside of the boat with a lip and a pieced together screwed on frame goes on the inside with a lip that covers any cutting gaps/errors around the complex window shapes.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:09 PM   #29
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I hear you. We rebuilt the engine, glassed in the fuel tank and refinished the bilge (since the engine was out) while living aboard in Mexico. What a mess! But the boat is now in the Marquessas so most of the maintenance worked!
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:02 PM   #30
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Thanks, sorry for the questions but it is a fascinating project. I have a good friend with similar issues on his MT that may follow your lead. Are you just doing the outside walls? I'm wondering what your plans are where the walls come up against the built in furniture and interior walls. Will you also bead board the furniture surfaces or strip & stain to match the beadboard colour? Lastly, presumably the bead board is fastened with screws & therefore does not require a perfect substrate, could you not have just gone over top of the old veneer & avoided the need to strip it off?
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:31 PM   #31
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Thanks, sorry for the questions but it is a fascinating project. I have a good friend with similar issues on his MT that may follow your lead. Are you just doing the outside walls? I'm wondering what your plans are where the walls come up against the built in furniture and interior walls. Will you also bead board the furniture surfaces or strip & stain to match the beadboard colour? Lastly, presumably the bead board is fastened with screws & therefore does not require a perfect substrate, could you not have just gone over top of the old veneer & avoided the need to strip it off?
I'm trimming it around everything...but have no real furniture. the large flat surfaces ,not on an exterior wall with no rot but some veneer issues ...hmmmm, I'm not sure what I'm doing with them...probably smooth and paintable wallpaper as suggested before as beadboard would stick out too much and I don't need to build back structure.

The beadboard is going up with liquid nails and pressed, held in place with various means..no screws or nails...(did buy tiny brads but found I didn't need them.

Because of no mechanical fasteners...I took it down to something solid to glue to...even if it meant going all the way to the glass...fortunately I found 99% of the ply sound. The top veneer...which was 4 very thin layers...literally was just falling off...an airgun could have shredded it off the walls.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:03 PM   #32
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I personally thank you for posting what you have found. I was in a similar position to yours 6 months ago and purchased a 1985 taiwanese built boat and had the typical survey, haul out, etc done. I now have a legal liveaboard slip in Marina del Rey and could not be happier.
One of the few issues I saw prior to the survey were a few leaking windows from prior neglect and the same damage was seen in a few corners of the interior panelling. I was not too concerned then, but having read these posts, I am very happy to hear it is not that big a deal.
I like the idea of the walls you have, although I may elect to paint the walls white and retain the teak window trim and built in cabinentry, as I love the look. The teak walls were maybe too dark for my taste, especially with a large salon.
I love my boat and do not in any way believe it to be a POS. Heck, I have heard of and seen much newer boats with leaking windows.
Thank you for the posts and if you can, keep the information coming!
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:46 PM   #33
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PS. Panels are usually not fitted tight at the edges to allow for expansion. Hopefully you are doing the same with beadboard.
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Old 07-16-2014, 06:55 PM   #34
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PS. Panels are usually not fitted tight at the edges to allow for expansion. Hopefully you are doing the same with beadboard.
Not true...if it were "a ply core" it would be solid too....

The filler allows for no room to expand or contract...I understand what you are saying...and in house building it may be a big issue...but most boats now are just cored and there's no gaps left on boats I'm familiar with.

Plus in some areas its filler, in others the ply comes together.

Today's lesson on Taiwan boats is there is little exact symmetry.

The port side rear panel area is about an inch shorter than the starboard side....
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