Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-17-2017, 06:57 PM   #1
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,867
Where's The Water

This is odd. We are heading north from FL to CT. Before we left I changed the carbon filter in the "whole house" water filter. Everything was fine for about 10 days. Now at the end of a day of cruising, I need to shut off the breaker to the water pump and turn it on again to get the pump to work. Can the two be related?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 07:14 PM   #2
Guru
 
City: Sydney
Country: Australia
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,328
blocked filter ?
__________________

gaston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 07:21 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Sealife's Avatar
 
City: In transit
Country: From USA
Vessel Name: Sea life
Vessel Model: Krogen 42 #61
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 371
Is it an electronic variable speed pump? I had one of the original ones and had to cycle the breaker to reset electronics everytime it stopped. Defender took it back, no questions asked. Went back to basic pumps and expansion tank.
__________________
Scott

www.caribbeansealife.com
Sealife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 08:16 PM   #4
Guru
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 757
I had a variable speed pump in a previous boat. It made lots of strange noises, almost sounded like groaning. The water pressure was never good. I also went back to a standard pump with the large pressure tank.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 08:54 PM   #5
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,890
I do not see the link between your carbon filter and switching off/on your pump breaker... Better investigate on the pump side itself.

When you switch your breaker off, d you wait some time to switch it back on or just off then on?
L.
Lou_tribal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 07:30 AM   #6
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,867
Pump is single speed. Breaker gets turned off then immediately on. I have now bypassed the filter. Water pressure at the tap has seemed a bit low. Bypassing the filter has helped that. We'll see how it goes today.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 08:00 AM   #7
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 746
Its fairly common for the pressure switch on the pump to fail. That switch is the only thing that turns the pump on and off.

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 10:46 AM   #8
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,790
What make and model of pump do you have. As I recall, I think you said it was original for the boat. Wonder if it has brushes and they're getting tired.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 11:10 AM   #9
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,557
The breaker may be on its way out. If you can, hook a DVM on DC volts as close as possible to the pump. Run the water and watch the voltage while the pump cycles. If the volts are dropping more than say 2-3 volts, the breaker contacts may have high resistance. Resetting the breaker may temporarily make a good contact that degrades over use.
Coincidentally, yesterday I had to replace a breaker that feeds my horn for the same reason. Only 2 volts were making it to the horn. Without the horn connected, perfect 12.7 volts at the leads. The voltage drop cause was the breaker internal contacts.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 06:08 PM   #10
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,867
The pump is a Groco Paragon Senior--a mere 2.5 boat units. Removing the filter did not help. When I turn the breaker on and off the pump runs again. Oddly, the taps spurt air as if the pump is priming itself. Can't locate any air leaks or water leaks. When it's working it does not cycle when there is no demand. No water leaks that I can find. No bilge pump cycling.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 07:28 PM   #11
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,790
Does it use a traditional well pressure switch? If so, next time it doesn't run, jump the contacts with a wire. Also, you might inspect them for carbon build up or pitting.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2017, 10:05 AM   #12
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,867
The mystery continues. It appears that the problem becomes worse as the level of water in the tank drops. More air "spurts" at the taps and the Vacuflush. When the pump shuts down, simply turning the circuit breaker off and then on starts the pump again---no waiting time. I've tightened every hose clamp I can find, and removed the "whole house" filter. No joy. The pressure switch seems to function perfectly when the pump is running. The accumulator tank was put in new about 4 months ago so I doubt it's that. I don't think it's the thermal protector as the pump turns on again instantly when I "cycle" the CB. The one thing I am suspecting at this time is a failing impeller in the pump.

I've hit the end of my test cycle and have a marine plumber coming on Monday.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 06:13 AM   #13
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,432
"The one thing I am suspecting at this time is a failing impeller in the pump."

Mount your on board spare.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2017, 03:46 PM   #14
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,867
Mystery solved---maybe. Had a tech on the boat today. He began by asking me the details, showing him the pump and water tank locations. He immediately discovered a small water drip from the edge of the inline large particle water filter. The one before the pump with a screen in it. He removed the bowl of the filter and discovered that the gasket had a cut in it and a deformed spot as well. He said if water is dripping out, when the pump runs it is probably pulling air in.

He tried to get a gasket but could not locate one locally. It's an "O" ring but it has a square shape. Rather than hold up our trip north, I coated the old "O" ring and the bowl threads with T-9, a thread sealer that is potable water safe. So far so good. No leaks and no air in the line. I'll order the correct gasket when I get home and install it properly. Sure beats needing a new pump. Sometimes a tech knows what he's doing. Kudos to Atlantic Yacht Basin in Chesapeake, VA.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 06:44 PM   #15
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,867
Well I received the new gasket from Groco and installed it in the inline particle filter. The air in the lines has lessened but still appears on occasion. The pump still shuts down once in awhile during the night. The interesting part is that the fixtures furthest from the pump have the most air in the line. The galley sink which is the closest to the pump has no air in the line. Any ideas folks?
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 07:19 PM   #16
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,459
FF told me about a trick for my raw water side. I started at the intake thru hull and swabbed heavy grease on every connection until the air bubbles quit in my strainer. The grease sucked in and sealed where the leak was . Maybe use some plumbers grease or something safe for consumption on all connections on the suction side until the air stops .
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 11:47 PM   #17
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,581
Do you think air is entering from the supply side of the pump? I seem to have a similar issue and it may not be pump related.
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 11:38 AM   #18
Veteran Member
 
City: Beaufort, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Mikelson 43
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 82
Check the tank vent by loosening the fill cap. It doesn't sound like a venting issue, but that would be easy to eliminate as a possible cause.
ABfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 12:43 PM   #19
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,107
Have you tried temporarily bypassing/removing the inline particle filter to rule it out as the cause completely?
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 12:59 PM   #20
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,867
I spoke to a Groco tech. He said the symptoms are a definite sign that the pump end needs a rebuild. The rebuild kit should arrive today or tomorrow and I'll give it a shot. Will report back when I'm done.
__________________

__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012