Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-15-2018, 01:39 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Water filled Keel tanks?

I have two 400/400 gallons tanks in the keel, which are sealed and flooded with water. It's been like this possibly over a decade. I believe they are steel tanks, since they are part of the keel.
If I wish to revive these tanks and use them again, what would be the cleanup process? Anyone ever had to do this?
__________________
Advertisement

LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 07:47 AM   #2
Veteran Member
 
City: Pretty Beach
Country: Australia
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 85
Your first task is to gain access to the insides of the tanks. Any inspection ports? If not can you construct them?
__________________

D.Duck44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 10:01 AM   #3
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,480
Must be a reason they were sealed. Are they ballast? Once you empty them check stability and roll resistance.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 10:20 AM   #4
TF Site Team
 
City: Westerly, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 995
I've never seen a flooded keel that was used as 'usable' water tankage. I've only ever seen these used for ballast.

I've never seen a 'sealed' flooded keel. All the ones I've seen have open ports and usually fill through displacement when launched and drain when hauled.

I wouldn't want to see a flooded keel that is only half-full. I would think it would adversely impact handling by introducing a 'Slack Tank' effect.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 01:29 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Duck44 View Post
Your first task is to gain access to the insides of the tanks. Any inspection ports? If not can you construct them?
No, I don't see any ports. Only pipes sealed.
I don't think there is a way to install a reasonably sized port.
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 01:32 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview View Post
Must be a reason they were sealed. Are they ballast? Once you empty them check stability and roll resistance.
The boat was built originally as a long range cruiser. The original document shows 1600 gallons fuel capacity.
I suspect, it is functioning as a ballast now. Nobody knows, why they were flooded with water? The boat was used as a livea-board for more then a decade.
I'd like to put it back as a long range cruiser and have all the 1600 gallons available.
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 01:33 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
I've never seen a flooded keel that was used as 'usable' water tankage. I've only ever seen these used for ballast..
It is not the keel what is flooded. The two tanks are, which are built into the keel. The keel is a ' box keel ' and kind of flat at the bottom.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	fullsizeoutput_13f3.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	102.7 KB
ID:	79749  
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 01:58 PM   #8
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 789
Some photos might help the tank discussion.

Also, hard to understand why a keel would be open to the bottom. Surely it would quickly fill up with slime and sea creatures, and really stink when on the hard??
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 02:22 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
Some photos might help the tank discussion.

Also, hard to understand why a keel would be open to the bottom. Surely it would quickly fill up with slime and sea creatures, and really stink when on the hard??
I never said that the keel was open to the bottom. The keel has two tanks incorporated on each side. The pipe from each tank comes up to the ER.

I will take better pictures tonight, when I go there. Here is one, where you could see the pipe's end sealed.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1923.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	115.4 KB
ID:	79751  
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 03:24 PM   #10
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,007
To use the tanks for fuel, you need to get all the water out. Hard to do without a inspection plate. You could use a fiberoptic camera to inspect thru the fill ports. I wouldn't pump the water out, add fuel and hope my filters would catch all the water. Besides, water left in sealed tanks grows things. In sailing ships, drinking water in barrels turned green in a couple months.

If the tanks are part of the hull, it might be best, when hauled, to cut holes in the hull. You could add flush mount access ports. Then you could clean and sand blast if necessary. Even add a tank coating. I have 75 year old mild steel fuel tanks, still doing their job, but never used for water storage.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 06:43 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
To use the tanks for fuel, you need to get all the water out. Hard to do without a inspection plate. You could use a fiberoptic camera to inspect thru the fill ports. I wouldn't pump the water out, add fuel and hope my filters would catch all the water. Besides, water left in sealed tanks grows things. In sailing ships, drinking water in barrels turned green in a couple months.

If the tanks are part of the hull, it might be best, when hauled, to cut holes in the hull. You could add flush mount access ports. Then you could clean and sand blast if necessary. Even add a tank coating. I have 75 year old mild steel fuel tanks, still doing their job, but never used for water storage.
If I understand you correctly, you would get as much water out as possible and fill it up with fuel. Let the fuel flow and use filters to catch the water and the other stuff. Is this correct?
I thought about a primitive polishing solution with a pump and large filters just to circulate the fuel in each tank. It could be a permanent installation and continuous run. I have seen people building these. This could eliminate the junk inside the tanks, in time. This job is not urgent, so more brainstorming is possible on the subject.

I will haul it out this December and I will see the options for opening the tanks from the hull side. Perhaps, it could be a project for the future?

These tanks were not flooded for water storage/use. I think it was just a decision for buoyancy and not dealing with those tanks. The other 2 tanks with 800 gallons is enough for most of the people here in PNW.
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 07:25 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
cool beans's Avatar
 
City: Norfolk, VA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 272
First off...sailboats have had fuel and water tanks in their keels for many years and many brands. The first that comes to mind if Gulfstar, and all of their boats have fiberglass tanks integral with the keel...sail or power. Islander is another with metal fuel tanks in the keel.

Second, with that much tankage that low in the keel, I can easily imagine flooding it with water to keep the boat within designed stability parameters. That's 5,600 pounds of diesel, when full. My grandads had told me "back in the day" they would trim out the ship as it burned "oil" by flooding the tanks with sea water. Of course old war stories followed booze

Personally, I'd install inspection ports and steam clean them after draining like you would any old tank and have them inspected. If they aren't rotten, I'd use them. Install 2 filters per tank (primary and bypass) and tie it into your fuel manifold. IF, IF, IF they are problematic with clogs after running them...then look at replacing them.

My 2 cents that you didn't pay for, lol.
cool beans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 07:34 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool beans View Post
Personally, I'd install inspection ports and steam clean them after draining like you would any old tank and have them inspected. If they aren't rotten, I'd use them. Install 2 filters per tank (primary and bypass) and tie it into your fuel manifold. IF, IF, IF they are problematic with clogs after running them...then look at replacing them.
My 2 cents that you didn't pay for, lol.
Have I mentioned that this is a sailboat hull by design?

I think that is a pretty good plan. Since, there is no urgency, I can plan this out well and get it done, before I really need 1600 gallons.

Where do you want me to mail the 2 cents? Lol
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 09:57 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
more photos

I took some yesterday. You can see pipes are sticking up, sealed. The wide ones should be the fill up pipes. I don't know what the smaller ones are for?
Unfortunately, there is a 20g waterheater is sitting on the top of this area, so it is hard to take good pictures. I hope you can see the tanks' top?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2482.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	165.4 KB
ID:	79822   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2483.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	169.2 KB
ID:	79823   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2484.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	172.0 KB
ID:	79824   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2485.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	124.3 KB
ID:	79825   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2486.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	165.4 KB
ID:	79826  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2488.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	117.6 KB
ID:	79827   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2487.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	94.9 KB
ID:	79828   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2489.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	127.9 KB
ID:	79829  
LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 11:37 AM   #15
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,480
Those are pipe plugs, so those are tanks intended for something probably fuel. I would start by removing pugs and pumping the water into a container to see if it has a fuel smell or any oil appears if you carefully pump from the surface of the water.
Pumping through a boat diaper might show fuel as well.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 12:29 PM   #16
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,271
Pipe plugged port is probably for sounding tank. It could also be a discontinued vent when PO decided to use tanks as ballast instead of fuel tank. If it was a vent, it would have continued up to deck level or higher by pipe or hose.
__________________
Jack (Steve?)
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 12:35 PM   #17
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,271
I would have pumped those tanks dry before haulout,if they are water ballast.
__________________
Jack (Steve?)
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 04:11 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
cool beans's Avatar
 
City: Norfolk, VA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Bayliner 3870
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoKa View Post
Have I mentioned that this is a sailboat hull by design?

I think that is a pretty good plan. Since, there is no urgency, I can plan this out well and get it done, before I really need 1600 gallons.

Where do you want me to mail the 2 cents? Lol
PayPal works. 2 cents plus a $35 consultation fee and a $25 "convenience" fee totals to $60.02

cool beans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 06:53 PM   #19
Guru
 
DHeckrotte's Avatar
 
City: Philadelphia, PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Revel
Vessel Model: 1984 Fu Hwa 39
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 966
Those would scare me to death! Are they integral with the hull? I'd fear they were quietly corroding themselves to dangerous. I would not be happy with them until I knew they were not dangerously corroded and for evermore verifiably not corroded at all.


I suppose the less squeamish would be less concerned with a water tank open to the sea as long as the tank top and connections were intact. But not me!
DHeckrotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 11:49 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
LeoKa's Avatar
 
City: Bremerton
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ironside
Vessel Model: 54' Bruce Roberts design, custom built, steel, sailboat hull, single CAT 3306.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHeckrotte View Post
Those would scare me to death! Are they integral with the hull? I'd fear they were quietly corroding themselves to dangerous. I would not be happy with them until I knew they were not dangerously corroded and for evermore verifiably not corroded at all.
Would it still corrode, if it was airtight and full with water?
I don't even know what water is in there? It could be salt water.

If I understand you correctly, you don't recommend to open these tank from below. No inspection hole from the hull?
__________________

LeoKa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012