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Old 07-26-2015, 06:51 PM   #21
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I'm perfectly happy running the sweettank 24/7 - that's why I bought it (for $230). In the grand scheme of things the sweettank is a small investment. Thanks Peggy - I didn't think about how the aerator would get fouled over time with sludge. I surely don't want to clean that. It will be installed and used!

My initial post was not about the worry of the vent during pump out - rather the good flow of oxygen into the holding tank to promote aerobic decomposition of the waste and prevent the stink of a tank going anaerobic (as I learned from Peggy's book).

I tried to increase my vent size but believe it or not, a 3/4" hose simply could not be snaked up through the exiting cutouts in the boat after I moved to the larger OD trident 101 hose (sharing the same cutouts as the vent). The Trident is considerably larger in OD and it took a fair amount of force to pull the new 5/8 vent hose through the cutouts - good thing for the nipple and PVC cement holding the old and new hoses together.

I do have a second 5/8 hose "pre-run" to the port side of the boat but I haven't figured out a way to reach the side of the hull to attach a hose clamp for a second vent fitting. Maybe someday I'll find someone with long arms and have a stbd and port vent - but for now, stbd 5/8 looks like it will do...

Peggy - one more question, this time about the uniseal. I planned on putting all my fittings on top of the tank but I just got back from the boat to dry fit everything and the clearance between the deck and top of the tank is too tight. I'll have to put some fittings on the side of the tank. Would you be comfortable with putting a uniseal fitting below the waste water line? I may have to put one on the bottom of the tank for the macerator pump out port (the dip tube is too high on top of the tank).
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:01 PM   #22
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So, my suspicions that the charcoal filter is useless are sort of true? I was thinking about changing it. (unknown how old it is, or how long it's been installed) Debating if 230 is worth it for a bubbler. One of the downsides to having an MSD.
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:27 PM   #23
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My initial post was not about the worry of the vent during pump out - rather the good flow of oxygen into the holding tank to promote aerobic decomposition of the waste and prevent the stink of a tank going anaerobic...

With an aerator installed, the vent ceases to be needed as a source of oxygen...that becomes the aerator pump's job. The vent now only provides an escape for air in the tank and asource of air to replace tank contents as they're pulled out by a pumpout or overboard discharge pump.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:58 AM   #24
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New holding tank design

I will be installing a blackwater tank of about 140 gallons in the bow under the head area. Where can I find guidelines on proper design and use?
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:34 AM   #25
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Would you be comfortable with putting a uniseal fitting below the waste water line? I may have to put one on the bottom of the tank for the macerator pump out port (the dip tube is too high on top of the tank).

ON the bottom? or AT the bottom? Unless your tank is entirely above waterline and you plan to dump at sea using only gravity, I would not put a discharge fitting ON the bottom of any tank. Sludge will pack the discharge line unless you're scrupulous about flushing out the tank and plumbing almost every time you pump out or dump.

You can use a Uniseal for a connection AT the bottom of the tank ONLY if there is -0- stress on the fitting in it to either side or up or down that can break the seal.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
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So, my suspicions that the charcoal filter is useless are sort of true? I was thinking about changing it. (unknown how old it is, or how long it's been installed) Debating if 230 is worth it for a bubbler. One of the downsides to having an MSD.
I wish I could have invented a product that actually helps to create the very problem itís sold to solve, because thatís what a vent line filter does. Filters do trap the gasses which try to escape through the vent line, but they impede the free exchange of air needed to prevent odor from forming in the first place, eliminating the need for a filter! They only last about a year, are toast immediately if they get wet--which makes it impossible to backflush the vent line to prevent blockages--and ridiculously expensive. So install a vent line filter only as a last resort, because gasses that canít easily pass through the vent line will go wherever they can-into hoses, eventually permeating even the best ones.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denisl View Post
I'm perfectly happy running the sweettank 24/7 - that's why I bought it (for $230). In the grand scheme of things the sweettank is a small investment. Thanks Peggy - I didn't think about how the aerator would get fouled over time with sludge. I surely don't want to clean that. It will be installed and used!

My initial post was not about the worry of the vent during pump out - rather the good flow of oxygen into the holding tank to promote aerobic decomposition of the waste and prevent the stink of a tank going anaerobic (as I learned from Peggy's book).

I tried to increase my vent size but believe it or not, a 3/4" hose simply could not be snaked up through the exiting cutouts in the boat after I moved to the larger OD trident 101 hose (sharing the same cutouts as the vent). The Trident is considerably larger in OD and it took a fair amount of force to pull the new 5/8 vent hose through the cutouts - good thing for the nipple and PVC cement holding the old and new hoses together.

I do have a second 5/8 hose "pre-run" to the port side of the boat but I haven't figured out a way to reach the side of the hull to attach a hose clamp for a second vent fitting. Maybe someday I'll find someone with long arms and have a stbd and port vent - but for now, stbd 5/8 looks like it will do...

Peggy - one more question, this time about the uniseal. I planned on putting all my fittings on top of the tank but I just got back from the boat to dry fit everything and the clearance between the deck and top of the tank is too tight. I'll have to put some fittings on the side of the tank. Would you be comfortable with putting a uniseal fitting below the waste water line? I may have to put one on the bottom of the tank for the macerator pump out port (the dip tube is too high on top of the tank).
I don't think I would use a uniseal permanently at or below a liquid level...put an access plate on the top and a regular through hull at the bottom of the side of the tank. See if you can also put the overboard discharge pump hose downward to a low spot so the tank drains and the overboard pump can get it nearly all out of the tank.

My boat is set up that way and it hasn't had a problem yet....and I am not anal (pun intended) about flushing after pumping.

Not to say it may not be a problem for you and your use of the holding tank....but boats and their systems can be compromises.

I think the trick is to never let your tank even start to dry out.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:41 PM   #28
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I just picked up something else in denisl's post:I may have to put one on the bottom of the tank for the macerator pump out port (the dip tube is too high on top of the tank).

Despite the fact that Jabsco shows their macerator pumps connected directly to a tank, I'd never do that...because you never discover that the macerator isn't working when a tank is empty, only when it's full. If the pump is connected directly to the tank, there's no way to remove it without dumping your tank into your boat. I always recommend installing TWO discharge ports in a tank--one directly to the pumpout fitting, the other directly to the overboard discharge pump and thru-hull with a shutoff valve at the tank. This has the added advantage of eliminating a y-valve.

I think the trick is to never let your tank even start to dry out.

No...the trick is to MAINTAIN the tank and plumbing, which includes flushing it ALL out 3-4 x year, leaving only a 1/2" of clean water om the bottom. Macerator pumps should be at least nominally rinsed after EVERY use if you don't want the impeller to become firmly stuck to the inside of its housing...often resulting in a cracked vane the next time you try to use it.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:21 PM   #29
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Doesn't happen to my macerator pumps.

I guess living aboard and using the system like an engine helps.

You can have just one port with a tee and manage the through hull during pumpouts if 2 ports would be an issue.
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Old 07-31-2015, 06:09 PM   #30
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I dont know what hose is being used for the 5/8 vent line, but couldnt you just use a 5/8 fuel line to keep from having it collapse?

Could you use a additive like this for smells? It works great in my rv's 40 gallon tank.
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Old 07-31-2015, 07:11 PM   #31
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Sanitation hose is wire reinforced, so while vent lines can easily become blocked, but rarely if ever collapse unless nylon water hose or another totally unsuitable hose is used.

Are you sure you really want to use or recommend--or even store on your boat-- a product that "may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. If ingested, this product will immediately causeburns to the mouth, throat, esophagus and possibly the digestive tract. Ingestion can causegastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. This product may cause methemoglobinemia upon ingestion characterized by cyanosis, headache, dizziness, fatigue,nausea, vomiting, drowsiness, stupor, coma and rarely death?"

And they actually have to nerve to call it a "green" product??? Oh..that's just what color it is.

You can read the complete product MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) here: TST RV Toilet treatmet MSDS
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:10 AM   #32
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product that "may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. If ingested, this product will immediately causeburns to the mouth, throat, esophagus and possibly the digestive tract. Ingestion can causegastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. This product may cause methemoglobinemia upon ingestion characterized by cyanosis, headache, dizziness, fatigue,nausea, vomiting, drowsiness, stupor, coma and rarely death?"

Peggie Hall: I think I had some of this with a meal in McAllen, Tx., At least the symptoms were the same. Can Corona be used as an antidote because I think that is the only thing that saved me.
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Old 08-01-2015, 01:04 PM   #33
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Sanitation hose is wire reinforced, so while vent lines can easily become blocked, but rarely if ever collapse unless nylon water hose or another totally unsuitable hose is used.

Are you sure you really want to use or recommend--or even store on your boat-- a product that "may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. If ingested, this product will immediately causeburns to the mouth, throat, esophagus and possibly the digestive tract. Ingestion can causegastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. This product may cause methemoglobinemia upon ingestion characterized by cyanosis, headache, dizziness, fatigue,nausea, vomiting, drowsiness, stupor, coma and rarely death?"

And they actually have to nerve to call it a "green" product??? Oh..that's just what color it is.

You can read the complete product MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) here: TST RV Toilet treatmet MSDS
You apparently didn't notice the color is actually orange. I couldn't find a msds for the liquid orange power on camping world, but they do have one for the orange power tabs. That msds says if you ingest a lot of it you might get the burps.

Besides what do you think oil and transmission fluid can do to you? You'll have a hard time finding boats that don't have containers of the stuff on board. For the life of me I just can't remember when the last time I felt compelled to take a drink of any of them.
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Old 08-01-2015, 01:40 PM   #34
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Besides what do you think oil and transmission fluid can do to you?

How often do you handle oil and transmission fluid? How often do you handle your holding tank product? What's the risk of spilling oil or transmission fluid in your living space vs the risk of spilling a holding product? Where do you store them on the boat? Any small children or pets aboard that can be attracted by a bright color or "appetizing" (to a dog anyway) odor? And I'm sure you don't routinely pour oil or transmission fluid overboard...but whether you "pour" your holding tank overboard, plenty of people routinely do.

For the life of me I just can't remember when the last time I felt compelled to take a drink of any of them.

But it's ok with you if any aquatic life that happens be in the "neighborhood" in which a tank is dumped, even legally offshore, does? And then is caught and served up on your dinner table...???


I'm anything BUT a "tree hugger," but when there are so many good products out there that aren't poison AND work even better, I can't see any good reason to use products that are.
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:20 PM   #35
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Do you leave things such as toilet treaments or oil or transmission fluid in places easily accessible to children and not instruct them to stay away? Surely you can grasp the idea that there are untold numbers of dangerous things on a boat and it's your responsibility as an adult to insure that kids are instructed what they can and can not play with or for that matter, swallow.

I went and checked just to be sure, but the label on the orange power toilet treatment stated that is was enviromentally safe. If you believe that is a lie maybe you should sue them, possibly before they sue you for defamation. Manufacturers dont like "subject matter experts" bashing their products, especially when their claims originate from the msds of a different product.

Camco also sells a marine toilet treatment that lots of suppliers sell if the orange doesnt work for someone.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:14 AM   #36
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I didn't write their MSDS, they did. I'm only the messenger who copied a paragraph from the first aid warnings in it and posted a link to the whole document...which is the only MSDS that comes up in a google search for "TST RV Toilet Treatment." You obviously don't like the message so you're taking aim at the messenger.

Btw..."biodegradable" is a meaningless feel-good term that chemical product manufacturers use to mislead the public into thinking it's synonymous with "green". For example, formaldehyde, the active ingredient in several Thetford tank products, is classified as "biodegradable." That's why it's important to read the MSDS for any product. The first aid warnings are the best indicator..."harmful or fatal if swallowed, may cause blindness, call poison control immediately..." vs. "flush eyes with plenty of water, drink plenty of water if ingested, contact physician if symptoms develop"... YOU decide which indicates a product is safe for you AND the environment and which doesn't.
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Old 08-02-2015, 04:46 AM   #37
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Google "camco rv toilet treatment msds: and the link to the TST Orange RV Toilet Treatment MSDS is the first link displayed.

It doesn't contain formaldehyde so inserting that into an argument against its use is kind of specious.

Its hazard rating is less than many commonly used home cleaning products and less than many pool chemicals that are handled by probably hundreds of thousands of people (including children) every day this time of the year.

Talk about dangerous chemicals, take a look at the stuff in women's hair dyes - especially the stuff they call "Summer Blonde."
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:09 AM   #38
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I too think the discussion of holding tank chemicals is rediculous in relation to storing aboard....plenty of things like antifreeze that would present the exact same issues in much larger quantities.

I don't really think you need them when actively using the boat. Like most conciencious boaters, I doubt most of us would pump the stuff into the water. I see its use more for someone who can't pump out and flush before leaving the boat for awhile and wants to control odors.

I hate the thought of it...but what runs off the streets and parking lots of the world after every rain I think is far worse than what all the recreational boaters could possibly dump into the water. Till the world is serious about runoff, the occasional mistake or issue by a boater to me is forgiveable...but at that point....if a pumpout or run to the ocean is not practical...I would rather not see the chemicals hit the water and have it be just raw, the environment easily accepts that in small doses just fine and traces gone in no time. Not prefered...but not a big deal either.
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:46 AM   #39
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I didn't write their MSDS, they did. I'm only the messenger who copied a paragraph from the first aid warnings in it and posted a link to the whole document...which is the only MSDS that comes up in a google search for "TST RV Toilet Treatment." You obviously don't like the message so you're taking aim at the messenger.

Btw..."biodegradable" is a meaningless feel-good term that chemical product manufacturers use to mislead the public into thinking it's synonymous with "green". For example, formaldehyde, the active ingredient in several Thetford tank products, is classified as "biodegradable." That's why it's important to read the MSDS for any product. The first aid warnings are the best indicator..."harmful or fatal if swallowed, may cause blindness, call poison control immediately..." vs. "flush eyes with plenty of water, drink plenty of water if ingested, contact physician if symptoms develop"... YOU decide which indicates a product is safe for you AND the environment and which doesn't.

You do realize you used the msds for a different product. Right?

No one took aim at you because your message rubbed them wrong.
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