Time to replace the pooper!

[HeadMistress]

I've never known of any of the composting toilets to be available in marine stores. Plus, they're actually large compared to marine toilets:

Airhead Toilet Nature's Head Composting Toilets amd even the C-Head C-Head which is little more than a glorified cat litter box.

So I suspect you actually saw a portpotty SeaLand SaniPottie 975 MSD and thought it was a composter.

--Peggie

 

[toocoys]

I've never known of any of the composting toilets to be available in marine stores. Plus, they're actually large compared to marine toilets:

Airhead Toilet Nature's Head Composting Toilets amd even the C-Head C-Head which is little more than a glorified cat litter box.

So I suspect you actually saw a portpotty SeaLand SaniPottie 975 MSD and thought it was a composter.

--Peggie

It's a Natures Head composting toilet and it was on display at Boaters Resale in Kemah TX. I think it's a new one because they have a binder there with all the literature and information on ordering one, but it may be used.

 

[toocoys]

One other thing I thought of:

Since I'm replacing everything south of the bowl, is there any benefit in going with a 1" hose instead of 1.5"?

 

[HopCar]

One other thing I thought of:

Since I'm replacing everything south of the bowl, is there any benefit in going with a 1" hose instead of 1.5"?

That’s an interesting question.

Inch and a half became the standard when all marine toilets were manual pumps and probably didn’t break up the poop as finely and todays electric toilets. They also flushed directly overboard with raw water so it didn’t matter how much water you used.

My gut feeling is that the smaller hose will take less water to flush everything to the tank. It’s best to clear the hose with each flush.

Is it worth the trouble and expense of changing the hose? I don’t know.

I’ll be interested to hear Peggie’s opinion on this.

 

[BruceK]

Since I'm replacing everything south of the bowl, is there any benefit in going with a 1" hose instead of 1.5"?

Depends on the diameter of what goes in the bowl?

 

[Comodave]

When I put a Marine Elegance in a previous boat I used 1” hose for the same reason mentioned above, I think it would take less water to flush the macerated poop into the holding tank. At least that was my theory.

 

[HeadMistress]

Inch and a half became the standard when all marine toilets were manual pumps and probably didn’t break up the poop as finely and todays electric toilets.

Macerating electric toilets have been around since the ''60s...at least 15 years before the effective date (1/1/80) of the legislation mandating holding tanks. And they did a bang up job of pureeing solid waste. The biggest improvements have been reducing the amount water and power they needed--from 30-50amp draw,1-3 gal/flush to 10-15a draw and an avg .5 gal/flush--and pumps that have increased the distance they can move bowl contents without a lot of help from gravity from about 6' to 30'. Jabsco has always been the only the toilet mfr to use a 1" discharge...every other mfr has always used 1.5", which is the reason the standard size for holding tank hose fittings has always been 1.5" except for the vent.

So as for whether to go with 1" or 1.5" hose... There's no significant difference in either the amount water needed to pass a flush...but a lot less is needed regardless of the hose diameter if water is added to the bowl ahead of solids. If your toilet isn't designed to bring in water and hold it, use a beer cup from the sink! So I'd base the choice on the size of inlet fitting on your tank...unless it's custom fitted or you want to use an adapter.

Depends on the diameter of what goes in the bowl?

If it's too hard to go through through a toilet discharge hose, your diet needs a LOT more water and fiber. If it won't even go through a macerator, you need to consult your doctor!

--Peggie

 

[toocoys]

So as for whether to go with 1" or 1.5" hose... There's no significant difference in either the amount water needed to pass a flush...but a lot less is needed regardless of the hose diameter if water is added to the bowl ahead of solids. ...unless it's custom fitted or you want to use an adapter.



--Peggie

Since I'm buying a new tank, I have the option. However, I'd like to pick the easiest option in case I have to change something down the road. If the industry standard is 1.5" I'll stick with that.

 

[HeadMistress]

While I have the floor for a minute...about your tank: if you're getting it from Ronco Plastics (and I hope you are!), you need to be aware that their normal fittings installation leaves the threaded female "collar" on the OUTside of the tank wall sticking out about 1". If you want them to be flush with the tank wall (most people do), you need to specify that when you order the tank.



--Peggie

 

[toocoys]

While I have the floor for a minute...about your tank: if you're getting it from Ronco Plastics (and I hope you are!), you need to be aware that their normal fittings installation leaves the threaded female "collar" on the OUTside of the tank wall sticking out about 1". If you want them to be flush with the tank wall (most people do), you need to specify that when you order the tank.



--Peggie

I need them smooth, and I need them to stick up and make a 90 degree angle because of the way that my hoses come into the tank.

 

[HopCar]

“Macerating electric toilets have been around since the ''60s...”
So have I!

 

[HeadMistress]

I need them smooth, and I need them to stick up and make a 90 degree angle because of the way that my hoses come into the tank.


They're FEMALE fittings...you thread straight or 90 degree hose fitting into them. (see attached photos)

And btw, do NOT use any of the goop shown in your photo--nor any other sealant--on hose connections at either the tank end or the hose end. You can wrap the threads on the male fitting in Teflon tape if you're concerned they might leak, but that's all.

Be careful not to over-tighten fittings...they're NPT standard, which means they're slightly tapered--too slight to see with the naked eye in the short piece of plastic fitting. So when you thread the male fitting into the tank, tighten only hand tight plus enough more to aim a 90 in the direction it needs to go. Over-tightening puts stress on the "collar" that will cause it to crack, not always immediately...sometimes after several months or when there's a major temperature change that causes materials to expand or contract.


Good grief...those photos are HUGE for thumbnails...I'm afraid to click on 'em to see full size!

 

[toocoys]

And btw, do NOT use any of the goop shown in your photo--nor any other sealant--on hose connections at either the tank end or the hose end.

The goop thats on there is 4300 or 5200 or whatever. I put it there last fall to get us through the winter because the aluminum fitting was corroded. It was a temporary fix because we knew we'd be replacing the system at some point.


So what I'm understanding is that the fittings are left with about 1" of threads showing on the top of the tank? Why wouldn't they just screw it all the way down and melt it in place?

 

[HeadMistress]

Again...the fitting installed in the tank is a FEMALE fitting. It's that collar that sticks out about an inch--which is about the amount the MALE threaded fitting needs unless you specify that you want the fittings to be flush with the tank wall...in which case the collar extends INSIDE the tank. The threads are on the INSIDE of that collar. You have to buy the MALE fittings that threads into them separately...most marine stores have 'em. Btw...my photos show gray fittings, but those are just the best photos I have showing what they look like. Gray, white...doesn't matter which color you get. I think you'll have a clearer picture of it if you look at any holding tank on the shelves at any marine store...'cuz the fittings on all off-the-shelf tanks are flush.

And btw...don't even THINK of EVER using 5200 ANYwhere in your new sanitation system! (It really doesn't belong anywhere else on a boat either.) and there shouldn't be anywhere you'd need to use 4200. If you think there is, ASK before using it or any other goop or sealant.

--Peggie

 

[ranger58sb]

While I have the floor for a minute...about your tank: if you're getting it from Ronco Plastics (and I hope you are!), you need to be aware that their normal fittings installation leaves the threaded female "collar" on the OUTside of the tank wall sticking out about 1". If you want them to be flush with the tank wall (most people do), you need to specify that when you order the tank.
--Peggie

Yep, as we found out... while we were panicking that the combination of outside collar and 3-piece elbow-fitting on the dip tube was too high for our available clearance. Hadn't realized there were two options for Ronco's spin-welded female thread fittings, one on top of and one inside the tank. Inside the tank would need least overhead clearance.

I need them smooth, and I need them to stick up and make a 90 degree angle because of the way that my hoses come into the tank.

Also yep. Rich can make your dip tubes out of either 3-piece PVC fittings for the elbow plus a Series 80 PVC tube... or a single one-piece elbow with Series 80 PVC tube. In both cases, the PVC tube is milled (lathe-turned, I'm guessing) at the upper end in order to fit inside the male-threaded part that screws into the tank's spin-welded female threads.

See also post 15... and pics. First pic is above-tank spin-welded female-threaded dip tube fitting... one 1½" and one 1" diameters... with dip tube in the 1½" fitting and with a vent elbow in the 1" fitting. Second pic is a comparison between the 3-piece white PVC elbow parts -- not put together but the tape shows roughly how much height that would need -- versus a similar elbow solution (dip tube not actually attacthed; which happens to be a Shields Rubber inlet elbow) that would need less height.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Hmmm... after all that, I found a better pic of the final dip tube assembly we used, but then couldn't figure out how to load that into the last post, so...

See if this helps.

The combo of external female threaded collar and the first overly tall dip tube assembly (with white PVC parts) just about made us crazy. Turned out Rich/Ronco had the better dip tube assembly option, and that's what we needed to fit withon our available overhead clearance.

You DO want Ronco to supply the tubes. I looked at what it would take to create such an assembly from something like the Shields Rubber inlet elbow -- which looks to me like Marelon -- and a Series 80 PVC tube... but it needs a lathe to turn the outside of the tube down to where it would fit within the elbow, and I don't have one.

-Chris

 

[syjos]

I don't like dip tubes. Dip tubes does not allow the tank to be completely emptied. The minute one side of dip tube sucks air, suction stops.

I have two 1 1/2" FPT ports at the rear bottom of the tank, one for dock pump out and the other for macerator. Both are fitted with P-traps similar to the one in the second picture. The bottom of the P-trap is below the bottom of the tank so it is always full of sewage until the tank is completely empty. PVC pipe goes straight up from the P-trap until even with top of tank - pic 1.

The P-traps allow the holding tank to be completely emptied. To clean tank, water hose is inserted into one of the 1" vents, located at either side of the front of the tank, and turned on while the tank is being pumped.

The P-traps have never leaked.

 

[ranger58sb]

Yes, our dip tubes allow about ¾" of leftover effluent to remain in the tank.

That's slightly less than the previous system, where the outlet was on the side of the tank down near the bottom; that always left about 1"- 1½" of leftover effluent.

In our installation, the tank is resting on a hard platform... so there's no way to install something on the underneath face of the tank.

-Chris

 

[HeadMistress]

I don't like dip tubes. Dip tubes does not allow the tank to be completely emptied. The minute one side of dip tube sucks air, suction stops.

That's also true when the discharge fitting is at the bottom of a tank...when the level drops below the top of the fitting the pumpout starts sucking air. But unless the diptube is cut at too sharp an angle, it actually leaves LESS in the tank than a fitting at the bottom of a tank. It should be cut at no more than a 20-25 degree angle, which is just enough to prevent undissolved solids or TP from clogging it. And eliminates the need for any traps in the discharge fitting... which actually leave about the same amount or even slightly more than a diptube cut correctly.


As for flushing out the tank...putting the water into the tank through the vent sends it into the tank at the top of the contents, same as the flushing the toilet would do. Putting water into the tank via the pumpout fitting sends it into the tank at the bottom where it can stir up any sludge and hold it in suspension where it can be pumped out. It obviously can't be done that way during pumpout, but it only takes a few extra minutes to do it a couple of times using the method that can actually remove any sludge.

--Peggie

 

[syjos]

I don't like dip tubes. Dip tubes does not allow the tank to be completely emptied. The minute one side of dip tube sucks air, suction stops.

That's also true when the discharge fitting is at the bottom of a tank...when the level drops below the top of the fitting the pumpout starts sucking air. But unless the diptube is cut at too sharp an angle, it actually leaves LESS in the tank than a fitting at the bottom of a tank. It should be cut at no more than a 20-25 degree angle, which is just enough to prevent undissolved solids or TP from clogging it. And eliminates the need for any traps in the discharge fitting... which actually leave about the same amount or even slightly more than a diptube cut correctly.


As for flushing out the tank...putting the water into the tank through the vent sends it into the tank at the top of the contents, same as the flushing the toilet would do. Putting water into the tank via the pumpout fitting sends it into the tank at the bottom where it can stir up any sludge and hold it in suspension where it can be pumped out. It obviously can't be done that way during pumpout, but it only takes a few extra minutes to do it a couple of times using the method that can actually remove any sludge.

--Peggie

With the holding tank bottom oriented at a downward angle towards the two P-traps, all the holding tank content is removed completely. The pump does'nt suck air until the P-trap has no liquid in it. A dip tube will leave more behind than a P-trap installed correctly.

The water coming in at the top drops hard onto the solids breaking it up. I flush the holding tank two to three times per year so the solids are not allowed to accumulate. I do put water into the tank through the pump out fitting when cleaning but adding flushing water continuously through the vent while the pump out is running is the most effective. I can also switch to the vent fitting on the other side of the tank via valve to change the flushing action.

Quote: In our installation, the tank is resting on a hard platform... so there's no way to install something on the underneath face of the tank.

The P-trap outlet is on the rear wall of the holding tank, not the bottom.

 

[ranger58sb]

With the holding tank bottom oriented at a downward angle towards the two P-traps, all the holding tank content is removed completely.

Quote: In our installation, the tank is resting on a hard platform... so there's no way to install something on the underneath face of the tank.

The P-trap outlet is on the rear wall of the holding tank, not the bottom.

Ah.

And no. There would have been a way, with the original tank. In the new installation, we increased the size of the tank -- vertically -- and so now there are overhead clearance limits. And in either case, there'd be no space for P-traps. Our original outlet was a simple T, with one hose routed to the overboard macerator (and always "loaded") and the other line going to the deck pump-out fitting (usually partly "loaded"). One of my goals was to "unload" those lines, to reduce permeation and so subsequent work on, say, the macerator pump, wouldn't be so yucky.

For the latter, I also tried to install an open/closed valve between tank and pump, along with a another "injection" hose for winterizing if necessary... but didn't have space in the open area I can always reach, didn't want to install in the area nearer the tank because I'd have to remove a mattress and remove part of the berth's support platform to get to the valve or injection point. Not worth all that...

In any case, our system now has less leftover -- with the dip tubes -- than it did before. Good enough, for our purposes.

-Chris

 

[HeadMistress]

The P-trap outlet is on the rear wall of the holding tank, not the bottom.



I said, "That's also true when the discharge fitting is at the bottom of a tank"


--Peggie

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

dizzy and confused here....and I can't hold it anymore...

 

[Wayfarer]

My only fear with a composting toilet is missing the bowl. I dont exactly poop like a dainty 4 year old girl, so much as I do a 400lb lumberjack after an all you can eat sitting at Denny's. I looked at a composting toilet at a local boat store, and to me it would be like trying to $h!+ in a empty can of green beans.

hahahahahahhahhaaha

 

[Bigsfish]

Jack (Steve) your not talking about beer are you?

 

[Bigal6030]

My waste tank fills with greasy water

Our heads are plumbed to our fresh water tanks and pressurized water lines. We have jabsco solenoids that allow water in.

This season I noticed my waste tank filling with fresh water. I am connected to a pressurized fresh water system. My solution was to turn off the valve supplying fresh water and turn on the sea water intake. Of coarse Lake Michigan water is fresh and clean.
I wonder if I have a solenoid that failed allowing fresh water to fill my toilet which drains into the waste tank

 

[BrianSmith]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the tank level sensor. With a new tank, you're going to be installing something, and I'd sure want it to be something that won't fail, and that will give an accurate reading, and that has some kind of alarm / notification / toilet shut-off when the tank is really full. I don't have a suggestion, because my only experience is with the SeaLand 3-float system, and it's only so-so. But surely someone here can suggest something for the OP.

 

[ranger58sb]

This season I noticed my waste tank filling with fresh water. I am connected to a pressurized fresh water system. My solution was to turn off the valve supplying fresh water and turn on the sea water intake. Of coarse Lake Michigan water is fresh and clean.
I wonder if I have a solenoid that failed allowing fresh water to fill my toilet which drains into the waste tank

If our solenoid fails, it lets fresh water into the the bowl... but the bowl doesn't automatically drain to the holding tank. That needs a "flush".

Sometimes our holding tank would backfill with raw water if the discharge thru-hull was left open.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the tank level sensor. With a new tank, you're going to be installing something, and I'd sure want it to be something that won't fail, and that will give an accurate reading, and that has some kind of alarm / notification / toilet shut-off when the tank is really full. I don't have a suggestion, because my only experience is with the SeaLand 3-float system, and it's only so-so. But surely someone here can suggest something for the OP.

I can say our WEMA system works semi-decently. It requires a sensor inserted into the tank from the top... and we find we have to clean the sensor every couple of years or so, whenever the float starts sticking... but we have an extra sensor tube and quick-connect electrics... so it's usually out with the old (set it aside and clean later), in with the new, 2 minutes or so, once I make access to the top of the tank (lift a mattress, lift a platform hatch, etc.).

I don't have much first-hand info on other systems to compare with, though... so not a recommendation, just an observation...

-Chris

 

[HeadMistress]

The Profile systems are the top rated tank level monitors...can never clog because thes sender goes on the outside of the tank. Scad Tank Monitors (also available direct from the mfr for a lower price Profile Tank Monitors

Any "lockout" device that would prevent the toilet from flushing would not be integral to the tank level monitor, but would have to be connected to the toilet's flush button or panel with a means of recognizing the "full" reading on the tank monitor.

Installing the tank level readout panel in the head and paying enough attention to it to know when the tank is approaching full would be a lot simpler and doesn't risk having a full bowl that can't be flushed.


--Peggie

 

[HeadMistress]

If our solenoid fails, it lets fresh water into the the bowl... but the bowl doesn't automatically drain to the holding tank.


It can if it's a downhill run from the toilet to the tank and the joker valve in the toilet has even a little age on it. How fast the bowl can drain depends on how worn out the joker valve is. Even slow seepage can fill a tank in several days away from boat...a joker valve that's so old the slit has become a hole can do it in hours...also depending on the size of the tank of course.



---Peggie