Teak Rail Gates No Longer Fit

[Oldersalt]

Friends,

My 1990 Grand Banks 32 has teak hand rails all around, with 3 boarding gates (port, stbd, aft). The rails are supported by standard stainless stanchions, not the earlier GB bronze stanchions.

The two side gates have both gotten "too long" by maybe 1/16 to 1/8 inch. When I bought the boat just a few months ago, in August, the stbd rail already could not be latched, but the port could. Aft transom gate works fine, but now both side gates cannot be latched.

Is this wintertime wood swelling or what? Could the railings themselves be bent towards the bow a bit so the gates don't fit?

I know there have been previous posts on this subject, but I was not able to sufficiently refine my search for "rail gate problems" to be useful, so I apologize for asking a question that has probably been answered here before.

Thanks for any advice!
Oldersalt

 

[Steve]

I have the same situation In wintertime the gates get tight. I can still open and close them but sometimes have to press on the stanchion to get it to close. When the weather warms up all is fine. I did try spreading the opening but it would not stay. I didn't want to press too much and break something.

 

[FlyWright]

Can the rail be separated from the hardware to allow the rail to be shortened by 1/16th of an inch? Pics might help.

 

[DHeckrotte]

Second the opinion that the rail end could be removed and the Teak reworked.

Were it my problem, I'd try a diagonal bit of line tied to flex the stanchions just the little bit required and wait for a drier day/season to diagnose the problem. Wood once removed is hard to replace.

 

[Steve]

I think it is a good idea to try cable or line with a turnbuckle or something to flex the stanchions open, as it can be loosened or removed in warm weather (in my case) when the gates open easily.

 

[koliver]

That is a very common problem on all models of GBs. Try the GB forum.
Why this problem is endemic to GBs and not to other brands is likely related to the skinny scantlings GB used for the cap rail, to which the stanchions are fixed, allowing too much seasonal movement, and to the style of latching hardware, which requires a pretty exact mating of the latching ends.

 

[DHeckrotte]

Another possibility for the change in fit is that the hull itself is changing shape. Fiberglass structures are not immutable: they flex under load, they sag over time, they creep under load, they absorb water and swell, they dry and shrink.

Sailboat structures make this pretty obvious: the head doors jam, the lifelines slacken with variation in rig tension (tuning or under sailing loads), cracking at repeated flexure places, keel joints opening up. Of course, much worse on a lightly-built or poorly engineered boat.

No reason why a powerboat structure would not do the same. Look at your cracked scuppers for an easy, common example; the hull and the deck flex differently and they are not necessarily tagged together all that well along the bottom of the bulwarks.

 

[Oldersalt]

Rail Gates

Dear Heckrote,

On my old sailboat, there was definitely some hull-flexing...doors no long fitting, etc.

On this new-to-me 25-year-old Grand Banks, however, I am really impressed with the build quality. Of course, powerboats are not subjected to the same stresses as sailboats by any means, but on this particular boat there is absolutely no evidence of any changes to the shape of the boat. Amazingly, there are NO rain leaks, and all the doors and locker doors fit as perfectly as the day it was launched, happily.

Of course, the rail gate problem could be caused by some small bending of the rails themselves, perhaps from a minor collision or some such.

However, before I try bending the rails much, or shortening the gates by taking off 1/8 inch of wood, I'll probably just wait until the weather dries out and see what happens.

Best,
Oldersalt

 

[DHeckrotte]

Odersalt, no nasty comment meant with respect to build quality: Our NE 38 was the best of 1962 fiberglass technology in 1970, Airex core and all. Our 1972 Morgan 27 was a little lightly, and cheaply built; later versions actually had the shrouds tied down to the hull instead of merely to the deck; still good value for the money - she's giving pleasure to her third owner (I wired the shrouds down to new chainplates that I installed on the hull). The '68 Newport-built Flying Dutchman was highly overstressed as a light raceboat and her urethane core had become embrittled or turned to dust.

I'd bet that powerboat structures are more highly loaded, if not more highly stressed, than sailboats in certain areas. There's nothing on a sailboat like the four huge stringers and the great long keel stiffening the flat bottom of a trawler.

Despite the negative comments Taiwanese builds attract, our 84 Fu Hwa was nicely built (in most of the places that I've investigated). Her scuppers are cracked; the tabbing from hull to deck mould is a little iffy (not a happy thing to install, even for a diminutive person). But the three Teak gates still fit.

 

[Steve]

On my boat it is definitely a matter of temperature I on a cold day in the morning the gate will be tight to open, once the sun has hit it and warmed up things it is much easier to open. In the winter it is tight all summer normal. In South Louisiana the humidity is high all year. One would think in cold weather the wood hand rails would expand tightening the gate opening, but, it is the opposite. Anyway a knee applied to the stanchion makes it easy to open so we live with it, it is strange though!

 

[Oldersalt]

Dear DHeckrotte,

No offense taken and no need to apologize. You made a perfectly legitimate comment about possible boat hull flexure. I just felt the need to defend the honor of my beloved Grand Banks!
Best
Oldersalt

Odersalt, no nasty comment meant with respect to build quality: Our NE 38 was the best of 1962 fiberglass technology in 1970, Airex core and all. Our 1972 Morgan 27 was a little lightly, and cheaply built; later versions actually had the shrouds tied down to the hull instead of merely to the deck; still good value for the money - she's giving pleasure to her third owner (I wired the shrouds down to new chainplates that I installed on the hull). The '68 Newport-built Flying Dutchman was highly overstressed as a light raceboat and her urethane core had become embrittled or turned to dust.

I'd bet that powerboat structures are more highly loaded, if not more highly stressed, than sailboats in certain areas. There's nothing on a sailboat like the four huge stringers and the great long keel stiffening the flat bottom of a trawler.

Despite the negative comments Taiwanese builds attract, our 84 Fu Hwa was nicely built (in most of the places that I've investigated). Her scuppers are cracked; the tabbing from hull to deck mould is a little iffy (not a happy thing to install, even for a diminutive person). But the three Teak gates still fit.

 

[Knot Salted]

Mine too!

Our beloved 1981 Californian 34 has the same setup I believe.

After people were boarding for brightwork all winter, we experienced the same issue - a gate that had always worked smoothly was now too long to close. Appears that they may have opened and pinched over a towel with pressure (leaning on it) and stressed the end caps, or missed the catch, and pushed down beyond the stop. Same with the starboard gate. It had enough play that it could miss the catch all together and any down pressure (grandkids) would really put a bite on the hinges/caps - also resulting in a gate too long by pulling them away from the wood rail.

Our ultimate repair might be to separate the caps from the gates and rework/attach to fit.

A very scary thing happened on our vacation last year. Upon docking at our last port (we were supposed to be in home port, but got too rough) I opened the starboard gate, and it came right off in my hand. The roll pin had vanished overboard. That would have been impossible to match back up, let alone the cost. Still seeking new roll pins for all three gates.

 

[DHeckrotte]

With respect to replacing roll pins, take care to note the fit. Something might have been overstressed to open up the hole. I think one part would have been an interference fit and the other a looser fit.

Were it my problem I'd be tempted to use an allen socket cap screw and an elastic stop nut.

McMaster-Carr is your friend.

I once nearly dropped overboard while motoring past the UN Building because the lifeline I was leaning against lost a pin.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. DH. If I may, allow me to "tweak" your suggestion, just a bit. IF at all possible, purchase Allen socket screws that are longer than necessary. Once above a certain length, there is usually an non threaded section that, if used as a hinge pin, will not wear fittings like a threaded section will. Cut off the excess threads and file smooth...

While the head profile does protrude a bit the smooth bearing surface will ensure a longer service life IMO.

 

[Knot Salted]

Thank you for that. I've been thinking of a bolt and locknut solution.

 

[DHeckrotte]

RT, quite right.

And I think the button head screws can be had with the smooth shank. My dad used to chuck the ordinary cylindrically-headed screws into a drill and, while turning, file the heads into something like the button heads.

Happily, I have an ample selection of 1/4-20 SS cap screws (my dad's horde, inherited) which have been finding their way into all sorts of projects.

Here's one of the weirder ones, a tape slitter. Edge repair of piano rolls made for the Ampico Model A requires lots of 1/5" wide document repair tape. I made this slitter for the standard 1" tape with 4-#11 Exacto knives, scraps of 3/16" aluminum, a bit of dowel, and four cap screws. The blades are simply clamped between the scraps.

Feel free to use this information any way you see fit.