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Old 09-19-2014, 06:20 AM   #21
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>Wouldn't it be easier and about the same price to just use sanitation hose rather than paint radiator hose?<

Usually the hassle is the repair person is in a hurry. Marinas have limited funds to keep slow moving inventory .

I believe folks in a Hurry is how Worst Marine stays in business with their outrageous pricing.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:31 AM   #22
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Just remember we will all be "stupid POs" someday
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:41 AM   #23
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Just remember we will all be "stupid POs" someday


I definitely see that some stuff is just outrageous...but being in the business of repairing other people's boats...I also see a lot of things that look like they are well thought out and work fine...just not the "preferred" fix..almost as if they were done on a cruise or to get the boat someplace and were just never corrected because the "fix" worked good enough.

My boat came from the factory (I assume as it went everyplace) with wet exhaust hose as the sanitation hose. I don't think there's a "rule" that says you have to use sanitation hose other than having to replace it sooner either due to rotting or odor. Just because repairs don't meet one's expectations doesn't necessarily mean the PO was "stupid" just had different priorities.
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:02 AM   #24
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I agree with the last two comments and I was thinking the same thing. I try to do everything to meet good yachting standards but I am sure that on thing or another someone would find issue with the way that I did it. That does not say though that there are some things listed here that make you wonder...... I have a good one.... in my major hose replacement I found. I replaced the fresh water fill hose as well as all the tank hoses because the hoses were showing there age. I was also having trouble with the water filter always filling up with a rust color. In the fill hose I found a 14 inch screw driver that was completely corroded and rusted out. I suspect a long time ago the cap came off of the keeper and they were trying to loosen the attachment point and lost the screw driver. It ran down almost to the tank. I hope this will clear our water up a little.
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:56 AM   #25
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Greetings,
Mr. R. "Premixed" screwdriver? I wanna go on your boat.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:02 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I definitely see that some stuff is just outrageous...but being in the business of repairing other people's boats...I also see a lot of things that look like they are well thought out and work fine...just not the "preferred" fix..almost as if they were done on a cruise or to get the boat someplace and were just never corrected because the "fix" worked good enough.
Exactly and now I've got a conundrum that's not yet resolved. The day before i was heading out I dropped the gasket on my water filter overboard. It sank. Well, I made one (article here: janice142 article Water System and Filter Fix) and now I can't find the one that fits my filter I'm not going to drop $20 for a new filter housing assembly.

And yes, I should have bought a couple of spares when I bought the unit. But I didn't. So now... well, I'm a PO and unless I find a ring that fits...

On the other hand, it does work and I've got the numbers written down and periodically look online for the part. There's no need to hurry and if I were to sell the boat I could easily remove the filter from the system and "call it good" -- would pass inspection without a pre-filter no doubt. But it wouldn't be as 'good enough' as it is at present.

It's wrong for certain though. Sigh.

What really Torques my sense of humor though is a workman who comes aboard and does nothing but denigrate all the previous work done. Spade fittings versus terminal rings were a source of discussion one afternoon at a local hardware store.

The new fuse block in my cabin has spade fittings, and that meant switching over from my rings. Wrong of course -- the initial run from the breaker had a fuse inline, but I kept thinking of new things to run off that 10 gauge so did upgrade last year.

But of course the spade fittings meant all my old ends had to be replaced. And I was told that terminal rings are "bad" -- well, honestly stacking three on top of each other is not a good practice, but you know how one light leads to a fan, to a volt meter and then a better light... One-More-Thing-Itis.

Some folks have Flat-Surface-Itis where each flat surface attracts another item atop it. Well, boat projects at least for me tend to get into One-More-Thing-Itis -- it's something I have to be wary of...
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:56 AM   #27
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My vote is always for rings , not spades as they cant shake loose.

Some terminal blocks are very narrow , designed for spades , there I simply trim the ring to the ptoper width and still have more contact area than the spade.

Single or stacked a good procedure is a star washer on top of the stack under the nut..

IF the terminal end gets warm it will expand , and then shrink back, more so if there is a stack.

The star washer puts pressure on the terminal end and assures good contact , after thousands of cycles.

Some quality mfg use lock washers on their terminal blocks , but star washers work better.

A great rainy day project as you clean the old terminal ends with a scotch brite pad .
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Old 09-20-2014, 07:14 PM   #28
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[

A great rainy day project as you clean the old terminal ends with a scotch brite pad .[/QUOTE]

I could think of whole lot of other things to do.

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Old 09-20-2014, 08:15 PM   #29
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. Just because repairs don't meet one's expectations doesn't necessarily mean the PO was "stupid" just had different priorities.
I think some of the things I've found could be substantiated by my PO living 5 months each year in the Abacos. The water distribution manifold aft the fresh water pump was made of 5 different material, probably cuz that's all he could find in the Island Hardware stores to fit together.

To simplify the waste system, I took 30 ft. of hose, 4 fittings, 2 Y-valves, and a dozen or so clamps out of the plumbing. As was, you had to mascerate to the pump-out (not pleasant for the pump-out man), but it would also mascerate back to the toilet, back to the tank, out the thru-hull, or even a circle and back to the mascerator. No one could ever figure out why it was plumbed that way.

Just a couple of months ago, I found a operating oil pressure gauge wrapped by a ball of electrical tape under the helm. What's with that?!
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:52 PM   #30
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You guys sound surprised ... I see this stuff every day of the week. 90% or my survey recommendations are electrical in nature. 1 out of every 10 boats I survey have the AC ground and neutral joined (inverters/generators excepted) at the panel, 3 out of 10 boats with two shore power inlets have joined neutrals, 9 out of 10 gasoline powered boats have non-ignition protected equipment in the engine compartment, 9 out of 10 boats have batteries without fuse protection, 2 out of 10 boats have unsecured batteries, 6 out of 10 boats have AC ground and DC negative not bonded, the list goes on and on.

Yes, I started keeping stats a few years ago and am constantly amazed that more boats do not go up in flames and that more people are not electrocuted.
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:27 PM   #31
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You guys sound surprised ... I see this stuff every day of the week. 9 out of 10 boats have batteries without fuse protection
Starting batteries and fuse protection - is this not an open issue?
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:01 AM   #32
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>I could think of whole lot of other things to do.<

As could anyone ,

BUT the existing electrical system was a great target for modification by the PO , so knowing what is there is always good.

Cleaning after 20-40 years in use keeps the reliability up.
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:22 AM   #33
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Starting batteries and fuse protection - is this not an open issue?
Take a look at Mainesail's post and photo over on Sailnet
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:53 AM   #34
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You guys sound surprised ... I see this stuff every day of the week. 90% or my survey recommendations are electrical in nature. 1 out of every 10 boats I survey have the AC ground and neutral joined (inverters/generators excepted) at the panel, 3 out of 10 boats with two shore power inlets have joined neutrals, 9 out of 10 gasoline powered boats have non-ignition protected equipment in the engine compartment, 9 out of 10 boats have batteries without fuse protection, 2 out of 10 boats have unsecured batteries, 6 out of 10 boats have AC ground and DC negative not bonded, the list goes on and on.

Yes, I started keeping stats a few years ago and am constantly amazed that more boats do not go up in flames and that more people are not electrocuted.
Not sure I understand this comment.....

I can see...and have seen a lot of bad wiring...just curious where/how someone could make this one dangerous as they are tied together on electrical panels only a couple feet from the shore power inlets.
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Old 09-21-2014, 10:37 AM   #35
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[QUOTE=boatpoker;269492]Take a look at Mainesail's post and photo over on Sailnet[/QUOTE

Thank you, I read it and remain skeptical that irrational engine starter motor wiring, poorly maintained systems, outboard, gasoline inboard engines, and small sailboat protection are always (100%) pertinent to my, similar or larger vessels. This skepticism is shared by yacht builders and ABYC compliant marine electricians.

As there have been countless pages in boat builder electrical specs, ABYC recommendations, on TF and other internet sites regarding the pros and cons of this subject I'll leave it to the pros and surveyors to argue it out, as has been the case for 20 years or so now.
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:06 PM   #36
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Just when you think you've chased every stupid PO trick in an old boat, another surfaces.

My fishfinder was intermittent a few weeks ago, then finally died. It acted like a bad on/off switch. I brought it home to troubleshoot it and it worked perfectly. Back to the boat yesterday to check the wiring. I was getting 3V intermittently at the wires, so I knew I had a wiring problem. It didn't take long before I found this gem of a splice buried in a wire bundle near the forward ER door.



As I peeled back more electrical tape, I found the ground was stripped about 1 1/2 inches in each direction, then gently twisted and taped together. I've seen bag ties on bread bags more securely twisted! Faced with the choice of using butt connectors here and retaining the old wire, then replace the wire later or just do it all right now, I chose to just shit-can the old wire and start new with all new 12AWG wire and terminal connectors. An hour later, the job was done right. Whew!



It's an old Furuno fishfinder, but it works well when it has electrical power. Replacing it would have been at least a $2-3000 cost since the "while I'm at it" rule would have kicked in. A new NEMA2000 and WIFI networked fishfinder/chartplotter could have been too easy to justify in my own mind.

So I'm pleased that the fix was limited to time and effort with tools and supplies onboard. No haulout for a new transducer, no big ticket items and little grief. I'm relieved!
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:08 PM   #37
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Not sure I understand this comment.....

I can see...and have seen a lot of bad wiring...just curious where/how someone could make this one dangerous as they are tied together on electrical panels only a couple feet from the shore power inlets.
Not sure which part you are referring to ... ground/neutral bond ? If this is the case I suggest you google "electric shock drowning" or watch the heart rending .
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:28 PM   #38
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Not sure which part you are referring to ... ground/neutral bond ? If this is the case I suggest you google "electric shock drowning" or watch the heart rending .

I have seen that video and also read reports written on this incident.Absolutely no puns intended,but it is shocking at how easy and how little it takes to unknowingly cause this kind of an accident.I have learned a lot from reading up on this subject,in hopes that I can avoid my family or myself becoming another statistic.It also makes me wonder how many people have drowned due to this and the real cause was never known.
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:35 PM   #39
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Not sure which part you are referring to ... ground/neutral bond ? If this is the case I suggest you google "electric shock drowning" or watch the heart rending .
You just reminded me of one of the biggest PO issues I had. A neutral - ground jumper on the shore-inverter-generator control switch that could not be seen without a mirror! That was very hard to find. Before we did find it I had up to 15A returning via the water, so very lucky the boat was not in fresh water near any swimmers.

The PO was a car dealer who could patch up stuff himself in an OK kinda DIY way. But the biggest issues on board were mostly electrical and arose from the PO using one of his caryard 'fixers' as his boat maintenance guy. No doubt the work was paid for under the caryard's expenses so seemed like a good idea, but this guy would have stuffed a car's electrical system, which is a lot more simple than a boat. He wasn't any good at plumbing either. He should have only turned wrenches.....
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:48 PM   #40
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This is what was stated by Boatpoker

3 out of 10 boats with two shore power inlets have joined neutrals...

I'm not sure what that means....

Are the neutrals tied together at the shore power inlets ? (most likely 2 30 A inlets) or are they tied together at 2 random buss bars? Or are they tied together at the main panel?

Or are we talking they are tied to something other than a neutral buss bar?
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