Steering Hydraulics

[Bingo Buddy]

Sorry if this issue is already addressed elsewhere on this forum, but I just joined today and am still learning how to navigate through it.

Anyway, I own a 37 foot C&L trawler with upper and lower helms. Recently I noticed the upper helm pump was leaking hydraulic fluid. The pump is a Capilano 250V. I did a little research and found that it’s no longer made and the replacement is the Seastar 1250V.My lower helm pump is also the Capilano 250V and is in good shape. I was told recently that the upper pump is rebuildable, tried that and it still didn’t work.(After returning it to the rebuilder I was told they found pitting inside that is not fixable). Couple of questions:
Will the Seastar 1250V work upstairs in conjunction with the lower 250V pump.
Question #2: I am finding that the Seastar 1250V is currently impossible to get and back ordered at production level. Does anyone have a suggestion what else can be used other than the Seastar 1250V that will mesh with my lower helm pump?

 

[Mambo42]

I have the same steering pump and have the same problems. I just ordered a SeaStar HS 5161 overhaul kit for this pump. What happens most of the times is that the pump on the fly bridge is exposed to high temps, low temps, moisture etc and therefore the seals in the pump start to give way. Then you can turn the wheel, but nothing happens. Only when you spin the wheel quickly you can build enough hydraulic force to turn the rudder. That is the problem I have now as well. In the pilot house I have no problems whatsoever.
So before you write off your pump completely I would take it apart myself, clean it and install the replacement seal kit. Then try it and see if it did help. If it didn't then there is enough time to come up with another pump. I have learned that there are many 'so called specialists' who know absolutely nothing, but they assume you know even less, so they will tell you anything to cover up their lack of knowledge.
The Teleflex Capilano 250 V pump is an old pump, it is simple and has a lot of parts that cannot be destroyed in a closed system. Unless you had an oil leakage, thereby allowing air and moisture to enter your pump, it was a closed system and changing the seals plus cleaning the pump should solve your problems.
I am going to to the same in about 2 weeks time, have found an old mechanic who has done it many times and only if he is incapable or tells me it cannot be done............then I will start looking for a new pump.
But even then..............since we always steer the boat from the flybridge.......am sincerely thinking of moving the pump from the fly bridge to the pilot house and the one from the pilot house to the fly bridge. That should give me at least another 5 years before I have to completely replace everything.

 

[Southern Boater]

I have the same steering pump and have the same problems. I just ordered a SeaStar HS 5161 overhaul kit for this pump. What happens most of the times is that the pump on the fly bridge is exposed to high temps, low temps, moisture etc and therefore the seals in the pump start to give way. Then you can turn the wheel, but nothing happens. Only when you spin the wheel quickly you can build enough hydraulic force to turn the rudder. That is the problem I have now as well. In the pilot house I have no problems whatsoever.
So before you write off your pump completely I would take it apart myself, clean it and install the replacement seal kit. Then try it and see if it did help. If it didn't then there is enough time to come up with another pump. I have learned that there are many 'so called specialists' who know absolutely nothing, but they assume you know even less, so they will tell you anything to cover up their lack of knowledge.
The Teleflex Capilano 250 V pump is an old pump, it is simple and has a lot of parts that cannot be destroyed in a closed system. Unless you had an oil leakage, thereby allowing air and moisture to enter your pump, it was a closed system and changing the seals plus cleaning the pump should solve your problems.
I am going to to the same in about 2 weeks time, have found an old mechanic who has done it many times and only if he is incapable or tells me it cannot be done............then I will start looking for a new pump.
But even then..............since we always steer the boat from the flybridge.......am sincerely thinking of moving the pump from the fly bridge to the pilot house and the one from the pilot house to the fly bridge. That should give me at least another 5 years before I have to completely replace everything.

“I have learned that there are many 'so called specialists' who know absolutely nothing, but they assume you know even less, so they will tell you anything to cover up their lack of knowledge.”

Yep, certainly agree with this comment.

If it can’t be plugged into a computer to diagnose, then just keep throwing new parts at it.

 

[tiltrider1]

Use the search feature in the header and search “Capilano 250V”

A lot has been written on this. Most the really knowledgeable people on this subject are no longer here any more.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. Maybe try boatsteer.com. They rebuilt Seastar pumps and cylinders. Give them a call and see if they can help.

 

[Bingo Buddy]

I have the same steering pump and have the same problems. I just ordered a SeaStar HS 5161 overhaul kit for this pump. What happens most of the times is that the pump on the fly bridge is exposed to high temps, low temps, moisture etc and therefore the seals in the pump start to give way. Then you can turn the wheel, but nothing happens. Only when you spin the wheel quickly you can build enough hydraulic force to turn the rudder. That is the problem I have now as well. In the pilot house I have no problems whatsoever.
So before you write off your pump completely I would take it apart myself, clean it and install the replacement seal kit. Then try it and see if it did help. If it didn't then there is enough time to come up with another pump. I have learned that there are many 'so called specialists' who know absolutely nothing, but they assume you know even less, so they will tell you anything to cover up their lack of knowledge.
The Teleflex Capilano 250 V pump is an old pump, it is simple and has a lot of parts that cannot be destroyed in a closed system. Unless you had an oil leakage, thereby allowing air and moisture to enter your pump, it was a closed system and changing the seals plus cleaning the pump should solve your problems.
I am going to to the same in about 2 weeks time, have found an old mechanic who has done it many times and only if he is incapable or tells me it cannot be done............then I will start looking for a new pump.
But even then..............since we always steer the boat from the flybridge.......am sincerely thinking of moving the pump from the fly bridge to the pilot house and the one from the pilot house to the fly bridge. That should give me at least another 5 years before I have to completely replace everything.[/QUOTE

Thanks Mambo! I really appreciate the advice. I also thought about switching the upper helm pump with the lower one. I might give that a try but not sure, as I really look at that as a bandaid fix and I really want to have steering at both helms. I’ll likely get the Seastar HS 5161 rebuild kit you mentioned and see if that works. Thanks!]

 

[Fish53]

You can change to a Capilano 1250v which I believe is still available, much more reliable than Seastar helms. Your system doesn't care what produces hydraulic pressure but may respond differently to different helms. The 1250v is adjustable however.

 

[Keysdisease]

(After returning it to the rebuilder I was told they found pitting inside that is not fixable)

Like Mambo said:

"The Teleflex Capilano 250 V pump is an old pump, it is simple and has a lot of parts that cannot be destroyed in a closed system. "

The internal parts are always fully submerged in hydraulic fluid, and even a 50 year old helm doesn't have all that many revolutions to wear anything.

And like Comodave said, I have never used them but I have seen boatsteer.com highly recommended countless times here and other forums.

The Capilano is an outstanding system. The variable steering is unique, and the units are commercial grade heavy duty.

All that being said, a helm pump is a helm pump. Most any unit will be compatible as check valves lock one helm out from another. Another consideration is that you probably have the #50 uniflow valve in your system. This unit has been out of production for a long time. It has only 1 moving part and it too is fully submerged in hydraulic fluid. Difference is it's in the bilge aft near the actuator (ram,) not the best environment.

$0.02

 

[Choices]

I rebult mine at least three times and then drilled a tiny hole in breather cap and leaking solved.

There is a good rebuild article in archives by someone that really did a good job.

 

[hmason]

Where is the pump leaking from? Is it the shaft to the helm wheel? I was quoted $3K to rebuild the pump. I removed the wheel and a cover plate and found a 15 cent o-ring. Pried it out and replaced it; leak solved.

 

[Brooksie]

Where is the pump leaking from? Is it the shaft to the helm wheel? I was quoted $3K to rebuild the pump. I removed the wheel and a cover plate and found a 15 cent o-ring. Pried it out and replaced it; leak solved.

I had basically the same experience with my Wagner helm pump. Never a problem since. Never even removed the pump from the dashboard. Mine also had a recess where water could collect on top of the seal unless it was installed horizontally. I filed a channel so the water could drain. Better than new.



It's the old "3K for the $ 0.15 O-ring trick". Get a second opinion or better yet do it yourself. Then you know what you've got or not got as the case may be.

 

[sean9c]

Since you can buy a new helm pump for around $1500 I bet they don't sell too many $3k rebuilds.

 

[Martin J]

Like Rmason I rebuilt mine a few times with a leak from the shaft. In the end I bought cheap boxes of seals from HBR freight. Measured my shaft (miniscule wear and fiteed slightly larger seals and leak s topped. Cannot remember if i used imperial instead of metric or vice versa.