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Old 07-01-2014, 12:08 PM   #21
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Rochepoint: I see you also have shut off valves in the picture. Are they just there to isolated the autopilot for bleeding the system?
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:17 PM   #22
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Sorry Rick
I have no idea as to the valves use, have never had to bleed the system.
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Wow, that was fast!

OK so...

1) Capt Bill, how do you bleed the system?
If you read the PDF of the owner manual it tells you how to purge the system.
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:50 PM   #24
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If you read the PDF of the owner manual it tells you how to purge the system.
Yep, I saw that, thanks.

I spoke to Teleflex via email and they said to isolate the Autopilot pump to do some testing, I was just wondering if that's what the valves accomplished instead of removing and capping the lines temporarily which I imagine is pretty messy.

Their suggestion is to "flush" the system to get rid of dirt. Not sure how to go about that other than drain and refill, repeat, repeat, etc.
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:50 PM   #25
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I just finished overhauling my uniflow valve with their o-ring kit, aside from the mess taking the valve out it is a very simple process. I did not totally disassemble the valve but I now wish I had just for the peace of mind. From what I can see of the patent drawings, it would be a simple and inexpensive task to have a machine shop make replacement parts for the valve if ever needed.

When I get back to the boat the next task is replacing the seals in both the helms and both ends of my cylinder. I flushed my system and put in new tranny fluid and my previously bone dry system started to leak everywhere.

Apparently the replacement for the 250 and 275 helms are models 1250 & 1275.

What I don't get however is that the pdf's from Mike & Ob specifically show the 250/275 (at least the document says its for the 250/275) as having check valves behind the outlet fittings and also internally???? It was my understanding the model 250/275 helms do not have check valves, only the newer 1250/1275 models.

Incidentally, I also do not have that extra manifold that Mike has.
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Old 07-01-2014, 01:05 PM   #26
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RDuval, the flush procedure as you described is how I did mine X 2 and I discarded the flushed tranny fluid. $$$$$

No need to remove & cap lines to pump, you "should" have two ball valves near your autopilot pump which you can close to isolate it from system.

When you bleed the system, make up a good sized funnel with a clear tube attached to the end of it, on the other end of the tube attach a hose barb to 3/8 male npt fitting. This screws into the air bleed on the top of the upper helm. DO NOT fill the funnel more than 1/2 way when bleeding. Have lots of paper towel handy. I used a funnel with a shut off in the neck, makes it easier to dump extra when system is full.
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:19 AM   #27
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RDuval, the flush procedure as you described is how I did mine X 2 and I discarded the flushed tranny fluid. $$$$$

No need to remove & cap lines to pump, you "should" have two ball valves near your autopilot pump which you can close to isolate it from system.

When you bleed the system, make up a good sized funnel with a clear tube attached to the end of it, on the other end of the tube attach a hose barb to 3/8 male npt fitting. This screws into the air bleed on the top of the upper helm. DO NOT fill the funnel more than 1/2 way when bleeding. Have lots of paper towel handy. I used a funnel with a shut off in the neck, makes it easier to dump extra when system is full.
Nope, no ball valves..Grrrr. I searched the parts stash on the boat and found a piece of clear tube on a fitting as you describe. I'm assuming that's what I'm looking for. The only funnel that fits in the hose is very small; think I'll go looking at Canadian Tire or UAP to day to find a larger one and one with a shutoff as you describe, that's a great idea.

Teleflex suggested I disconnect the hoses at the ram and drain the whole system then refill the helm and turn the wheel only one way until at least one full bottle (litre/quart I presume) has been flushed through then do it again turning the wheel only the other direction and then do the full refill/purge procedure as described in the manual.

I wonder if it's worth taking the check valves in the side of the helms themselves out while it's drained to make sure they are clean or if flushing the system will take care of that?
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:27 PM   #28
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Just an update for posterity...

I drained and refilled the system as suggested by Teleflex. I opened the flathead screws on the sides of the Univalve - NO MORE THAN 2 FULL TURNS! - (Not sure why but the manual was VERY specific about that). Then you can turn the helm in any direction without pressure going to the ram and you can turn it pretty fast which is what I did. I think the high speed of the fluid helped to "wash out" any dirt in the check valves at the helms.

I also removed the upper fittings and check-valve springs in the side of the upper helm (it was easy to get to unlike the lower) but the balls did not come out or anything else so I just put them back together and did the refill and purge procedure rather than fiddle around (and possibly damaging) the checkvalves.

After refilling from the upper helm (with the funnel connected to a piece of clear hose and the screw in fitting) and letting the air naturally purge until it remained constant for a minute or so I ran the autopilot pump first to purge the air in there (lowest point) by setting the autopilot to AUTO then commanding turns first in one direction then then other a few times as the pump whirred away and purged itself.

I then went to the lower helm and turned the wheel continuously and as quickly as I could in one direction for a couple of minutes and then in the other for a couple. Again to flush dirt as well as purge air. Just make SURE you keep the fluid level up in the top helm or you will introduce air back into the system.

Then do the same with the upper. I then used a small hand pump used for transferring fluids to suction excess dexron fluid out of the funnel and a little from the helm to allow for expansion. Used lots of paper towels cleaning up the mess afterwards.

Bottom line... It worked.

Thanks to all and hope this helps somebody else.
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Old 07-31-2014, 05:20 PM   #29
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Art just take all the air out and and replace it w fluid.

Now that I've had my SA moment Teleflex gives out very good advice.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:52 AM   #30
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Rduval, You didn't happen to note the model number stamped into the side of your helms did you? I'm still baffled why your helms supposedly have check valves yet you have a uniflow. When you took the fittings off the upper helm could you actually see the check balls in there?
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:10 AM   #31
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Rduval, You didn't happen to note the model number stamped into the side of your helms did you? I'm still baffled why your helms supposedly have check valves yet you have a uniflow. When you took the fittings off the upper helm could you actually see the check balls in there?
They are model 250V's and unfortunately, because of the location I couldn't get a eyeball into the checkball passage to actually see what was actually in there (which I really would have liked to do). I would have had to remove the wheel and take the whole unit from the flybridge to do it so I opted to just try to get it working with the flushing and refilling which did the trick.

BTW, I know from the pic it appears I could look straight in but I took the pic with my smartphone flat against the bulkhead. My head "ain't that small" lol
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Old 08-01-2014, 01:32 PM   #32
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I was thinking that maybe the PO had new 1250 helms with check valves installed but didn't bother removing the no longer needed uniflow. So much for that thought, but you did find springs in there eh?

Incidentally, just curious. Did you serve on the Bonaventure? I last saw her in 69 after the government spent millions on paint & cosmetics, it never moved afterward and a year later it went to the scrap heap. Reminds me of our submarines, we really must stop buying used crap from the British.
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Old 08-01-2014, 05:53 PM   #33
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Yep, there were springs...

Sorry, no, never served. My Family is from Bonaventure Island off the Gulf of St. Lawrence in Quebec, 5 generations born there. My family owned a significant portion until the government expropriated it in the 60's. It's a huge part of the family history, hence the name.
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:03 PM   #34
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THis is on my short list of things to do.....
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Old 12-25-2014, 11:21 PM   #35
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I have a Capilano system as well and I have a problem for which I need some advice. After not using the boat for a day or two, the helm "freezes." Rocking the wheel back and forth one time frees everything up and it will operate flawlessly until it sits again unused for a day or two. Oil level is fine and there does not appear to be any air in the system. Any thoughts? Thanks and Merry Christmas. Howard
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:27 AM   #36
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I don't have this problem, but the first thing I'd want to figure out is whether it's the hydraulics that are sticking, or the rudder itself. Perhaps disconnect the steering ram(s) adn let it sit for a few days, then see which of the two is sticking?
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Old 12-26-2014, 11:28 AM   #37
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I don't have this problem, but the first thing I'd want to figure out is whether it's the hydraulics that are sticking, or the rudder itself. Perhaps disconnect the steering ram(s) adn let it sit for a few days, then see which of the two is sticking?

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Old 12-26-2014, 12:02 PM   #38
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Probably just the seals. I've got to kinda break mine loose but it takes very little effort. Never thought of it as a problem such as hmason describes. My system is way too big for the boat so seal drag is a small problem.
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Old 12-26-2014, 01:27 PM   #39
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Manyboats, that is the perfect description; breaking it loose. You're right, it doesn't take much effort and then works perfectly all day. I'm going to call the mfgr and I'll post what they advise. Thanks!
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:48 AM   #40
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"""""I drained and refilled the system as suggested by Teleflex. I opened the flathead screws on the sides of the Univalve - NO MORE THAN 2 FULL TURNS! - (Not sure why but the manual was VERY specific about that). """""""

Any farther will damage the 'O'ring seals which are on the screw. Then you will have to remove the screw and replace the O rings. Not hard but messy and then you must rebleed the system and topup whatever oil was lost. Any farther is simply not required as no further improvement in bleeding will occur.




"""""""Rochepoint: I see you also have shut off valves in the picture. Are they just there to isolated the autopilot for bleeding the system? """"""""

I have installed valves also. They are there so the autopilot can be removed for repair without introducing air into the system. Cuts out one bleed process.

When reinstalling they will help reduce, not eliminate air entry , with a lot of care to fill the pump and lines from the pump. Then of course comes a bleeding.

I will mention though that those valves are not the best for the purpose. The A.P. pump can likely produce upwards of 1,000psi [relief valve setpoint] Check your manual. The valves are rated for 600psi WOG [water,oil,gas]. The rating is stamped on the valve body. If you were using the AP hard in a rough sea where the rudder must be turned fast it is possible those valves MAY not stand the pressure.

I have the same valves but no AP at this point. When I rebuild the AP and reinstall it I will change the valves to a proper hydraulic valve of ~2,000psi working pressure.

Note, only the two pressure lines need those hydraulic valves; the return line is fine as is. You are likely fine as is but if ever the AP has to come out consider replacing the two pressure valves.
I think yours could be done, with care and a bit of thought, without getting air in.
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